Welcome And Lucy’s Big Leap

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Retained Search, the podcast, where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way, and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. She was one woman with a laptop and a notebook full of contacts in fresh produce of all industries. And I kind of thought that the contingent model wasn't the way that she wanted to build her business. And now, six years on LCR is a global executive search firm, placing senior leaders for growers and breeders and agitech businesses across five continents. It never ceases to amaze me the kind of stuff that you do, Lucy, and some of the job titles that you are responsible for, with a fill rate of northern 90%. And now an alliance partnership that gets a leads-based boutique search firm compete with firms 10 times its size. So in this episode, we get into how she did it, what went wrong, what she would have told her old self and what changed when she stopped trying to do it all on her own. So this is the Retrain Search Show, and my guest today is Lucy Robinson, founder and CEO of LCR International. Welcome, Lucy.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Thank you so much.

What LCR Looks Like Today

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Thanks for having me here. It's such a pleasure to have you. So I'm really interested to find out more about it, and I know our listeners will be too. So tell us first, like, give people the picture, if you will, of where you stand today. What does LCR actually look like in 2026?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, sure. So we are an executive search firm with a focus on the global fresh produce industry. Our clients are essentially growers and exporters and breeders as well as investors for fruit and vegetables. So we work with, yeah, for example, berry growers, berry breeders. Um, we work across a variety of products, but all fruit and vegetable related, and then also suppliers into the industry. So we might work with companies that supply seeds or fertiliser or various pieces of technology. And typically our clients will be global, so they'll have multiple locations. So, for example, we might work with a um a fruit grower that has a head office in California, but they have a farm in Peru and another one in South Africa, and now they're expanding into China. So, yes, I'll work with them globally in that sense, and it's across all functions, so we do everything really, but at senior uh C-suite level.

Choosing A Global Fresh Produce Niche

SPEAKER_01 3:08

It's so interesting, it's so niche and so specific. Like, I don't think most people will have come across a firm that operates so exclusively in growers and breeders and agrotech. Why this industry for you and why so single-mindedly?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yeah, I mean it's it's funny actually, because it I mean it's absolutely huge the industry, as you can imagine, like fruit and vegetables. It's yeah, it really is huge. Um, but obviously, it is very, very niche at the same time. So, yeah, I suppose if you go back, the my previous position, I was hiring actually across the the food industry in its entirety. So this was really much more mid-level roles, it was 360 contingents, and it was everything from bakery to uh confectioner, uh ready meals, literally everything, um, but including fresh produce. So, and that was all across the UK market actually. So I started to do a lot uh within produce and firstly absolutely love the space, like it's yeah, it's great, it's so interesting, and it's completely different from the rest of the food categories. So, really wanted to specialise in this area, but also wanted to take it global. I've done a lot of travel myself um previously, and I mean I love new cultures, I love um, yeah, I love traveling to see new places, and also in all honesty, I'd become a little bit sick of the UK market and I'd heard really good things about recruiting internationally. Um, and yeah, just really wanted to combine that sort of love for travel and new cultures with an industry that I can actually become passionate about and also also define a niche because working uh in the food industry like that wasn't a niche. It felt it I thought it was a niche when I started, but it it was far too broad. So, yeah, and to be honest with you, when I first started, I was a lot wider in terms of what I focused on, and it didn't work, which is one of the reasons why it didn't work in the first six months, amongst other things. But yeah, but now I think having that niche has really really helped.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

And so now it's five continents, like there's not many places you're not having voting in.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Yeah, six, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

And yet, from a base in Leeds of all places, like how does a boutique firm pull that off without offices in London and New York and Singapore?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, I mean it's really not that difficult. The most difficult thing is the understanding of different cultures and then the time zone, in all honesty. So being having to, you know, flex with working evenings to speak to um clients in California. Um, I don't tend to do it as much the other way, but that's why I know we'll probably come onto the alliance in Australia, but that's why what is that?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

You know, what problem was that solving and what's what's it unlocked for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I mean, it is mainly the time zone, uh particularly for New Zealand uh and Australia, but yeah, New Zealand being particularly tough. So in the uh yeah, half of the year, we are what 11 hours from Australia and 13 from New Zealand. And at the moment it's a little bit easier, being nine hours from Sydney, for example. But um, yeah, it's still not the easiest uh to deal with the time zone, and Australia is a really complex market to work for our industry, really uh, really tight talent pool, people won't won't relocate typically. Um, yeah, it is quite a tough market. So yeah, we met obviously John at um ELR through the search mastery, and yeah, and and it just made sense to to collaborate together on some some searches, for example, where it might be a client in the US who wants to open an office in Australia, or it might be a client in Australia that is looking to relocate someone from the other side of the world. It's hard to manage the time zones on both. So we've yeah, decided to launch a collaboration together.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

And you've done a few projects together now, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

We're on our second project. So the first one was actually uh so that was uh last year. So the year we only really started working together, what, six or maybe a little bit more, eight months ago. Um, but yeah, the first one was a client in New Zealand, and they needed actually a general manager to run a cherry farm in the south of New Zealand. Um, but they needed someone to relocate. They'd already exhausted Australia. Well, in their words, they'd already exhausted Australia, and they wanted to look across South America and South Africa and maybe Europe to get someone who had experience running a cherry farm specifically, not other products, cherries, um, and who could relocate to New Zealand. And actually, coincidentally, we found somebody who was from New Zealand but currently living in Australia that they hadn't come across, and he was a person that that we ended up yeah getting for the position. So, yeah, so he's he's there at the moment, and yes, that was great. And now we've got another one which is an Australian company, and again, they want someone international to relocate, so we're just in the process of shortlisting for that at the moment.

Life In 360 Contingent Recruitment

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Wow, insane. So um cashing linebacker like to take us back, if you will, Lucy to life before LCR. What did your working life look like in the contingent world?

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I it was probably like many other recruiters. I started in the U. I mean, I I did a lot of work in contingent um before food manufacturing in um like admin support roles. So that was very, very different in itself. But when I moved to back to Leeds in what did it be in 2013 and I joined my previous company, yeah, food manufacturing, mid-level management roles, and it was working what 12 to 15 positions at any one time, having what felt like at the time zero client control and really struggled to build relationships. Like we did have clients that would come to us for repeat work, but it was harder to get, and it didn't ever feel like a partnership. Um yeah, so I just remember it being yeah, fun. I mean, I've always enjoyed recruitment, don't get me wrong, I definitely enjoyed it, but you just yeah, you never feel like you're really able to do a proper job unless you get that exclusivity, which I did do, but again, it wasn't quite to the level. I always knew I wanted to work on a retained basis. We what I call dabble in retained at that time, and you know, sold a few retainers and then ran them as a contingent process, and you know, as you do. Um, so yeah, so I've kind of done a bit of that, but I just didn't know how I wanted to change it, but didn't know how.

The Push Toward Retained Search

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Right. And when you say you wanted to change it then, why why did you? What were there certain things that happened, or was was there a run-up to that, or something that catalysed it, or what was that journey like to deciding like I definitely want to go retained? And did it just kind of happen overnight?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

No, it was definitely a process over a long period of time. I think being introduced to retained and understanding that that was a possibility, hearing about others that were working retained exclusively and thinking, how do they do that? How how are they winning these retainers? How are they delivering on them? Like it just seemed yeah, a world that I had no idea about. And then just constant, just you know, not having a great success rate. Yes, I was a successful recruiter and I was able, you know, I had big billings, for example, but yeah, every what I probably um had about 30% success, I think, on vacancies, which I think is not bad, yeah. But yeah, but again, thinking, well, that's still that how many roles are just you're just not getting the commitment, or you know, you're sending sending CVs and you never hear back, and that's it. That you you know doing all that work and you just you don't hear anything. Um and I think also combined with I had I started a family at that time, so I had my uh now my eldest, so working less hours and just think I need to be more efficient with my time. Like, how can I be more successful without working more? So that was a big part of it as well. So really just started thinking about how I could change things, and and I really wanted to go as well, move up the ladder in terms of the types of roles I was working on. So, working on instead of moving from mid-level management to director level to C-suite, and started to win more of that work. Um, so I think it was all these combined that sort of got me thinking about the retained method.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And so what did you do and what did you try? And how did how did it go? What did that journey look like to begin with?

Learning Retained With No Playbook

SPEAKER_00 12:42

I mean, I definitely pitched retained a lot and just I never knew what I was saying. It was like I've been given a script that didn't make sense to me. So I was like almost selling something that I didn't know what I was selling. I knew what I was selling, but it was just yeah, I just never really understood exactly how to uh talk about the benefits to the client. Like I knew in my mind why it was better for them in terms of the success rate, you know, we're gonna have more success on this, we're gonna run a better project, but how you actually relay that to them was really difficult. Um, and I had no idea about delivering on the process either. So um I went on different, I think I went on two different courses that I remember. Um one was definitely like a I think it was a two or three day course where you oh maybe it's two day, I can't remember, but it's basically you go, it's in person and you you see it and you you learn about how to pitch retained. But I came away from that. It wasn't on the delivery at all, by the way, it was purely the selling of the retainer, which it always was. We never learned anything about the delivery ever. That wasn't even a thing. It was just like, yeah, you just win it and then you you somehow figure out how to how to fill them from there. Um, but yeah, I remember coming away from that course thinking, I don't think I'm that's helped at all. Like I understood what he was talking about and I understood his reasoning, but then again, to be able to relay that information to the client. I was just sat there thinking, I don't know, this has not helped me at all.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

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SPEAKER_00 14:47

What else did I do? And then I had an idea. I think at this time I was I was thinking I want to set up by myself at some point, but before I do that, I need to learn how to win a retainer and how to work retained. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna leave the company I'm at, I'm gonna go to this other firm who all they do is retained, and I'm gonna learn by working from them, which makes sense, doesn't it? I think well thought I did at the time. And actually, I had somebody come to me who I won't mention their their name, um, but they were like, Yeah, um, I wouldn't work there. It's not a great culture, you won't enjoy it. And at the time I thought, do you know what? I don't care because I just want to learn retained. That's all I want to do. It doesn't matter about the culture, I'll just go and I'll just learn it, say for a year or two, and then I can go and settle my business. Um, I went there for two months, hated it and left. It was really that bad. Was it? So, yeah, yeah, it just wasn't for me for many reasons, which I won't go into, but yeah. So I went back to the previous company, the company I was at, and thought I'll just have to wing it, I'll just have to just do what I can do and just try to pitch retained and see how I get on. And yeah, I think that's where that's where I got to.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah, yeah. And then and then what happened? At some point, I guess, um you looked again outside outside help, or what what happened next to carry on with the journey?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah, I think I gave up for a bit. I I did I did give up on the retain on the retained um not surprised. Yeah, I think at that point I was just like, I'll just work contingent, I'll just make it work on a contingent basis. Yeah, yeah. Um and I start, and this is at this point because I'd gone back to the company. Um, I set up a new desk from scratch. I um specialize at that point in international fresh produce. Um it was quite broad what I was doing though. I was including a range of companies, like I think maybe ingredients and maybe even like vegetarian food, and yeah, not really produce solely. I think I was too scared to purely specialise in produce. I felt like I was it was too narrow, even though it was the idea. I felt like it was too narrow, so I didn't really niche down properly at that point, which I think is one of the reasons why it didn't work straight away. Um, and yeah, long story short, did that at that company for six months, it didn't work. Well, I'll say it didn't work, it was working, it just needed longer, and um, I didn't bail, and they were like, This is not working, we need to part ways. Um yeah, so that so that's what happened at that point, and then that's when I set up LCR.

Community Support And The Retained Pivot

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And then um, so you set up LCR, and at some point you then joined a community of other people and a program of other people that were learning retained, and that's when we met. Um, so tell us a bit about you know what what what were you looking for then when you joined the search foundations? I can't remember whether it was called that when you joined, it probably wasn't. Yeah, oh I don't know, actually no, it probably wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

No, I think we just retrained, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, what were you looking for and what happened, what what changed for you then?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So I do remember specifically actually I'd started working with um um Kelly who still works with me now, and she does a lot of my my research, and she said to me, because I had started to run quite in-depth contingent processes, you know, I had a spreadsheet, I was tracking candidates, I was headhunting, I was doing all the things. And she said to me, she was like, Do you know you're pretty much working in retained processes here? Why aren't you charging retained? Well, retained model, you're working at a contingent, and it wasn't anywhere near as in depth to what I know now, but it was yeah, probably more so than your average contingent process. And I I said to her, I was like, Yeah, I want to work retained, that's what I want to do, but I I'm struggling to sell it. So I think at that point, um, she actually referred me to somebody else that she knows who runs a retained search firm. Had a couple of um calls with him to try and learn a bit, um, started pitching retained to clients, and I won. I think I won like two or three retainers before I joined retained, and it was purely from me going, yeah, I work retained, and they were like, okay, like there was no objections, like there was nothing. It was just like, yeah, okay, fine, yeah, you produce. So yeah. So I think that, you know, would have that does work in some respects. And I'm sure there's people out there that are like, well, I do win win retainers, you know, but it's it's the not being able to objection handle to the ones that you can't win, if that makes sense, the more the tricky ones. Like these were easy wins I'm talking about at the time. So I still knew that I wanted to be able to objection handle and really know what I was doing with winning the retainers, not just winging it, which I was, and then yeah, and then your course popped up. Um yeah, I think on LinkedIn or or something, I can't remember. Um, and I was like, okay, this uh this could be what I've been looking for.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

So and what's actually what's 18 months on from that then? Um what what what's changed? Like what what does that look like if post learning what you learn, you sought external help and eventually found something that that worked for you and what then happened in the business?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah, I mean we saw a lot of growth, um, we've convert we've converted um within the 18 month mark to um over 90% retained. Um yeah, we were able to to pitch against yeah, bigger search firms and and win assignments, uh increased our fees. So I think when we when I set up the business, I was averaging about 18%, and we've we've taken that up to 20, 25 to 28%. Um so yeah, and and it's just being able to, it's not about selling the retainer either, it's about delivering on it. It's the delivery piece. I think you know, the matter of time, I'm sure you've heard it a million times, or you hear, you know, oh well, uh you know, a retainer is just the same as contingent but with an upfront fee. No, it's not. It is absolutely not, and it pains me when people say that. It's just like, no, that's like what you're doing, but that's not what we do. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

And you meet a lot of people now, don't you, through what you do and your interviewing and you know, looking for people that might be interested in um being a member of your scene. And so you probably hear stuff like that. As often as I do. And um beyond the numbers, then what's kind of changed in how you run the business day to day?

Building A Team-Based Delivery Machine

SPEAKER_00 22:11

In terms of moving between contingent and retained, you mean it's just so much more structured. I mean, we we don't have 360 consultants, we have a team that work on a project. Um we split the skill set so we have uh uh business development versus delivery versus um uh sourcing because they are they definitely overlap, but they are different skill sets. Um yeah, there's a lot of structure to the business now, a lot of structure. I purely do the business development now, so I'm out there meeting clients, winning the retainers, and then I'll have a team that deliver on that. So yeah, I mean it's a completely different model to where I was previously, like completely different from that 360 environment. And I think it's hard for people to understand when I speak to, for example, Rector X, I'm speaking to at the moment, because we are hiring, and they they if they don't understand search and retained, it's really hard for them to picture that. I think really, really difficult. Um, and I'm yeah, and I think trying to understand the difference between a consultant that will do well in 360 contingent versus retained, they are two separate skill sets and people can't always cross over. So, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

It is it's a very different world, I I completely agree. Um, you talked about the the value that and the change that's been brought about in your business by seeking and finding kind of the right community and and bob for you. It initially it was the foundation's program. Um what and you're now a part of the other mastery community of other search firm owners and leaders from different parts of the world. What does that do for you that you can't get on your own?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

It's having the community of um search businesses that you I've not seen anywhere else. And there was it's going again back to the point of the difference between a 360 for a contingent firm or even a you know a temp agency versus a true search firm, particularly a boutique search firm, which a lot of the search mastery members are. Um, and there's nothing wrong with the contingency model or necessarily or the temp model if that's what you want to do, like that's absolutely fine, but they are just so, so different. And I think there's lots of memberships out there where you can join where there are yeah, contingent firms, temp agencies, etc. etc. But you're not going to get the same, you know, you might as well be part of a a network of broader businesses and other industries because it, you know, yes, you can yes, you can get the benefit of meeting other business owners 100%, but it's having the connections with those that understand what you do, but also that have been through because I know not all of them have the vast majority in search mastery have obviously been through the search foundations and of running their businesses in the same way. A lot of us follow, you know, traction and EOS framework, and there's just so much similarity between the businesses, and I think um, yeah, it's just having that network of people that you can reach out to and get tips, advice, and everybody's just so open as well in terms of sharing and offering advice.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Um yeah, I I wish in some ways I wish there was something like that. Um, for me, like I want what I've created for the people for me. Uh tell me what where what does LCL look like in three years if you if you go where you want to go?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Um, so we always want to be boutique, um, never want to be big in terms of of numbers, we want to be the number one search firm for the fresh produce industry globally. And as I was actually asked recently by a client, like, what does that actually mean? Like when you say number one, what is that? And for me, it's again, it's not being the biggest, uh, but it's about being the go-to search firm. So if someone says, Oh, we've got a you know, really niche role, an executive level role, who do we go to? You go to LCR. Like, that's the company you want to reach out to. So it's that, it's having the reputation, the brand, and just being the go-to company um for really any location globally. Um, yeah, and then I think in terms of the business itself, what that'll look like, it'll be there'll be you know more people working in the business, but I want to try and keep the numbers as low as as I can um while still seeing growth in revenue. And I'm really focusing on AI automation, but without taking away the human touch. Like for us, I would never, I'm never going to get into like you know, AI for interviews or anything. That's just not not my my thing. I know others do, but um, but yeah, so I think it's just yeah, using as much as we can to um ensure we're offering the the best process to our clients, the best results, um, but just keeping that human touch essentially because the fresh produce industry is so informal and it's so it's so people driven. I know a lot of industries are, but it's really focused on relationships. Um, so we can really drive our business forward through referrals, for example. So I just want to maintain that um more so than anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

So yeah, nice. Um, so Lucy, if a contingent recruit is listening to this and thinking and seeing themselves in your journey and a somewhere along you know, that journey that you've been on, which has been quite a long, longer road than I realize in terms of how you've been quite determined to move to a retained search model and have a you know a fully retained search firm, which now you have, and uh well, firstly, how does that feel to be sitting here and have uh near perfect bill rates, fully retained business model, only focusing on senior and executive work and it's your own business. How does it feel to look back on that journey that you've been on from where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah, good. I've not really thought of it like that, to be honest. But yeah, but no, it is good, it is good. Yeah, we've come a long way. It's been challenging. There's been a lot of challenges along the way, definitely things that you know, if I was to start again, I'd be like, right, I would I would have done this differently.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

But oh, come on, those things.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Well, this is going back to probably before the retained piece, but things like when I first entered the fresh produce market, pitching my my fees too high, I was rejecting um roles because we couldn't agree a fee, and actually they weren't that low. The percentage, I was just, yeah, not being I don't think I was being flexible enough for not having a reputation in the industry um or taking on things that maybe slightly too too low to begin with. Again, you just need a bit of a foot in the door. This is my perspective. Some people will go in and just go straight into sea level, and that's great. I just think it takes a lot longer if that's what you're doing. Whereas if you're willing to start at the bottom and then build up, you can you can get you put in a bit quicker, I think. So it depends on what you're looking for. But things like that, I think not niching down to begin with. I kept it too broad, I was scared in all honesty. It was terrifying to be that niche. Uh, but as soon as I did, it worked. But I can it's scary, it's really, really scary to to do that, particularly when you've been a lot broader in your industry. Um, and yeah, I think they're probably the yeah, the main things that I would I would have changed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, you've done so well. Um, so if somebody is seeing themselves in in your journey and they're somewhere along that that line of either setting up on their own or thinking they want to be retained and not not whatever they're trying isn't working, um, what's the one thing that you would say to them?

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah, I mean if they really believe in themselves and they really want to do it, they want to do it for the right reasons, it's not just about you know getting an upfront fee from the client, it's there's there's got to be other motives in terms of wanting the best process, the best results. I think if you if you want that, then yeah, I mean it's a no-brainer. It really is a no-brainer. It's um it's there's a bit of a process to go through, so you have to really commit and you have to want to commit because it's not going to be necessarily an easy transition. Um, more so just time consuming, I think, than than anything, in terms of like just learning, absorbing yourself and really going for it. But I think if you've got what it takes and you're determined enough, then it just absolutely 100% do it. I think there are people that it's not right for, um, and those people that just prefer the quick wins, they just want to, you know, they'd rather just send one candidate and hope for the best, and that's absolutely fine. But if you're about like delivering the best service to your client, then this is absolutely the way forward, I would say.

Hiring, How To Reach Lucy, And Wrap

SPEAKER_01 31:35

And you're all living proof of that, and onwards with the journey, like it's such a lovely firm, and um, it's a pleasure to be a part of your journey and of whatever's coming next. So you are hiring and you are interested in people talking to you that might be interested in the fresh produce industry and in the retained model. How can people reach out to you? Would you like them to?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, if people want to reach out, uh, like you say, we are hiring or just always open to hearing from people as well, whether it's just for yeah, advice or connections. So, yeah, people can reach out on LinkedIn is probably the best place. Uh but yeah, always happy to hear from people.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Amazing. Lucy, thank you so much for your time. It's an absolute pleasure. I know that our audience will uh relate to the journey that you've been on. And thank you for being kind enough um to be open to people reaching out to you. And good luck with the next chapters. Yes, very exciting. No, but thank you so much for having me on today. Well, that's another episode of Retrain Search, the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, LinkedIn controversies, and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearch.com. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi. We don't bite, unless you're a strike firm, that is. We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundation's program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently. And we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more, and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrain Search, the podcast.