SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to Retained Search, the podcast, where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way, and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Hello, Lou. How are you?

SPEAKER_00: 0:22

I'm good. Hiya. Yeah, I'm not as bad as I was. I am not as bad as I was. I feel like I've been like in a fog. I feel like I've had like somebody press my slow-mo button for the last couple of days.

SPEAKER_01: 0:35

You kind of have been in the fog if you class clouds as far because you've in the past two weeks probably spent about 70 hours in the clouds.

SPEAKER_00: 0:42

Probably more than that, actually. Yeah. It was a, I don't know, 26-hour journey, is it to us? And then a 47 and a half, not that I was counting, our journey to Brazil. And then I don't know how long it took. It wasn't too bad getting back, actually. It was probably only about 14 hours in total, door to door getting home.

SPEAKER_01: 0:59

Wasn't there a film released in 2025 that you haven't watched?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02

I watched every single film and all the old ones as well. Yeah, I have watched a lot of time.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

I was thinking about you the other day because I saw an article somewhere saying I think a new series of Ted Lasso is being filmed.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15

Is it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:15

And I was thinking, oh shit, I hope there's something good for Lou to watch on all the travels because it wasn't this time last year, it was a bit longer than that. But last time we went to Australia, we were both like so addicted to Ted Lasso.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28

Ted Lasso, yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30

I didn't I didn't count the flighting hours, it was how many Ted Lasso episodes. It's 11 episodes to Dubai, and then it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40

That's so true. I've been I've been downloading all the recent ones of Slow Horses and keeping up with Slow Horses. And oh, it's so good. And The Morning Show, which I absolutely adore. And I watched the film The Gentleman, that was one of my most favourite films that I've watched. Um, all my favourites in that one. It's a Guy Ritchie film, it's not it's like all the other Guy Ritchie films, but it's it happens to be really good. I loved it. Watch it if you've not seen it.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

It's a movie, it's a series, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 2:07

It's a movie.

SPEAKER_01: 2:07

Oh, is it? No, I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:09

And I watched The Road to Patagonia, which is couldn't be more different than those two movies, but I was in like floods of tears, like at the end of that one. So yeah, I've I've watched some good movies. Uh, what about you? You've been recovering you're upright. You are upright.

SPEAKER_01: 2:24

Yeah, I'm upright, yeah. So um I I am like if you look under the definition of patient with a bad back, it just says my name. I'm like six foot five overweight, sit at a desk from the hours of 8 a.m. till 6 pm, and then play tennis, golf, and paddle in my spare time. Like I am just a walking bad back. Um and yeah, I herniated a disc in my back, um, not playing tennis or playing paddle, um, skipping with my two-year-old daughter. Yeah. So I spent like two and a half weeks literally on the sofa. Thank you for any of the people that spoke to me during that time because I was like doing Zoom calls on the back with my laptop in the air above the bed. Um, and then just as I was on the road to recovery and nearly better, all of my parents and my in-laws went away, and I had to take my daughter to nursery because there was no other option. And as I picked her up out of the car, it went again.

SPEAKER_00: 3:23

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01: 3:23

I had another two weeks on the sofa, but I was very sensible during the second two weeks. I took it easy, and now I'm back upright, and people don't need to lie down with me to do a Zoom call.

SPEAKER_00: 3:35

Maybe start some yoga or Pilates or something.

SPEAKER_01: 3:37

Already started. Great, that's good. 7 a.m. Tuesday morning, stretch and mobility. Yeah, yoga's where the young, fit and healthy people go. Stretch and mobility is where I go on a Tuesday with all the other 80-year-olds who can't tie laces.

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

Yeah, I love 80-year-olds, it's great, it makes you feel young. I I live in like, well, God's waiting room, so I'm familiar with that.

SPEAKER_01: 3:58

I got it. Yeah, I got it.

SPEAKER_00: 4:00

Um, I've been um I've been travelling around the world and it's been interesting because uh I've been spending time in a region that for those of you that are listening, there is um it's just an observation. This is just an observation for those of you listening from Australia, but are most definitely about a couple of years behind where the UK and uh the US are from a retained perspective, and it wouldn't do any harm for you guys to look at the amount of retained work that's being won and done in the UK and in the US. You're ahead of us in beaches, yeah, yes, and poisonous animals, and I was yeah, there were several shark attacks attacks just before I went, but I was I was I was assured that it was it's absolutely fine to go in the sea, like it doesn't happen very often. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Um, so yes, ahead of us in in poisonous animals and in beaches, but not in retained, and there's so much perspective and misconception around it still. Funnily enough, though, I landed literally two days later, I had a message from someone on LinkedIn who's based in the UK that pretty much was exactly the same conversations that I was having in Australia. So I wanted to just talk about that for a minute and share that with you and with the audience. Um, so here's the message, and it came in yesterday, yesterday afternoon, and it says we don't take a lot of retainers at the moment. I think I'd reached out just to say, hey, is retain something you're interested in? Um, but we should. Right? That's interesting, isn't it? This isn't though, because a lack of skill in or a lack in my skill for selling them, it's just because I haven't tried. I find it keeps us on the hook for certain level of delivery, which can be difficult to fulfill. So he says the contingent model has worked for us so far and in brackets mostly. Right. So what this message is basically saying is I'm working contingent, but I'd like to be working retained because that top line is the giveaway.

SPEAKER_01: 6:20

We don't take a lot of retainers at the moment, but we should say any person selling a retainer to a customer should show them this message and say, Do you want me to be on the hook to deliver, or do you want me to just like I can walk away whenever it is?

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

Well, so the the the and and I had a lot of um when I was speaking at the event in Australia and hanging out with people, the thing that most people wanted or a lot of people wanted to talk about was I'm worried about retained, I don't want to take a retainer because I'm not sure whether I can deliver it, I'm not sure whether I want to, I'm not sure. There are some clients I don't want to be, I don't want to be committed to their positions that are really difficult to fill. Why would I take a retainer on a position that's really difficult to fill, right? And every time I heard it, and especially when I came back and I read that message, I was like, oh my god, we've got so much work to do. We have so much work to do in educating people on and removing this barrier, this worry and this fear around and the misconception that but then I cast my mind back and I used to think it as well. So I used to think that you take some money up front and then you commit to filling the position, right? That is that was my understanding of retained, and I and I understood it, sold it, and tried to deliver it on that basis for years. It wasn't until I started learning more about how it really is done and what we're actually committing to, and how the big search firms do it, and why they don't get fucking tied up in knots with positions that they're trying to deliver for months and months and months. And in fact, I had a conversation with my brother this morning, and he said we've got this situation, we've been trying to deliver it for like a year on a contingent basis, and it's just not working for us. What would be different on a retain basis? And oh, so nobody really the lots of people just don't understand it. So I just wanted to break down what it means to work on a retained basis, and firstly, why it's exactly that type of position that you should be taking a retainer on. So if if if we go down the alternative route and say, right, this is the position, it's really hard, there aren't very many candidates, or it's really difficult to fill, client's really struggling, the brand's not very strong, or it's a difficult location, all of those things. Like I say, all of those things, right? So it's a fucking nightmare. If you try and deliver that on a contingent basis, what's what's likely to happen?

SPEAKER_01: 9:13

You're probably not gonna reach of us, are we? I mean, we might get lucky, right? We've all worked contingently and got lucky before, right?

SPEAKER_00: 9:23

The chances are there's been loads of different agencies on it already. They've seen probably the best that they're gonna see and already rejected them and all that kind of crap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's exactly what my brother was talking to me about. This was this position that they've been working on, and they hadn't and they hadn't filled it. But it needs filling, they've got to fill it, right? In that situation, a lot of people would think I don't want to take a retainer on that, and that's exactly what this sort of guy this guy's talking about. And a lot of the the the people I've been talking about, they're retorts, and they're trying to find, you know, million-dollar billers and they're all they're legal people and they're trying to get partners, and they're like, I don't want to take a retainer on that, because how am I gonna fucking fill it? So the first thing is like the getting getting under the skin of whether it actually needs to be filled. Because if it doesn't, and they're just you know, it's just a we're they're just window shopping, well then firstly, you definitely don't want to be working it on a contingent basis because the chances of them pushing the button and hiring someone that you might find contingently is really slim.

SPEAKER_02: 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

And B, you also don't want to be working it on a retained basis because they don't actually want an outcome. But in that situation, they're not gonna give you a retainer anyway, they're not gonna pay you a retainer if all they're doing is window shopping. So once you've diagnosed it and that it is actually something they do need to fill, there is no other way of producing and guaranteeing a result. But what our mistake is that we think that that result has got to be a fill, that we've got to fill that position in return for the financial commitment, but we can't guarantee a fill.

SPEAKER_01: 11:01

I used uh I used an analogy with a member of ours the other week, and um, if if you don't like the analogy, Lou, we can cut it out. Uh for anyone who wants to know what it was, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn, I'll tell you what it is. I said it's like you imagine a patient goes into a surgeon, right? There's something wrong with them, they're gonna die unless they have this life-saving surgery. And the surgeon says, Oh, there's a small chance you might die on the operating table, though. So I thought I'm not touching it, I don't want to do it. The patient's going, I'm gonna die anyway. That's so true. It needs filling.

SPEAKER_00: 11:40

That's so true. I like that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:42

Just because there's a small chance that you might not play. That doesn't mean we don't do anything, we just leave it here vacant.

SPEAKER_00: 11:48

But it's the best chance you fucking got, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 11:51

It's probably the only chance they've got.

SPEAKER_00: 11:52

Yeah, exactly. That is it's such a good analogy. It's such a good analogy. Yeah, it is, it's really good. Um, and that means that it's not about um the model that you use, there really is only one way of making sure that you've got the best possible chance of finding an outcome, but it's who you pick, who you pick to execute that process. So if the surgeon was like, Well, I've never done this before, but I'll give it a go, you'd be like, Uh, maybe not. Um, I'll pick someone that's done it before, please. Um, so as long as you can demonstrate uh a thoroughness and a rigour of process that in every other case pretty much has yielded uh a positive outcome.

SPEAKER_01: 12:34

And they're realistic, right? If you think about when you go in for surgery, they always go, I've got to tell you the risks, there is a risk, there is a chance it could go wrong and stuff. But I've done this thousands of times, it very rarely happens. You've got nothing to worry about, you're in safe hands, and you go, Okay, I can deal with that.

SPEAKER_00: 12:51

If anyone can do it, I can. That's fair. That's fair, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. I love that. So what happens is, and we we've been running a session on this recently that has been going down really well. I know you did it for you did it for an audience the other day, didn't you? Was it the TRN or uh which sessions I sorry?

SPEAKER_01: 13:12

The retingent one, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did it for TRN and I'm doing it for the guys at Ursa later today.

SPEAKER_00: 13:17

Yeah, so it's a really good session, and I did it in Australia, and um it was so helpful for people um that helps you understand this trap that you can fall into where you're just taking some money up front and then not putting a process in because that's exactly what happens. You end up with some money up front, you're then on the hook, and then the rest of your reputation, relationship with the client, and fee, not to mention the fee, is dependent upon making a placement, and there's there's no kind of process that's actually being applied to to make sure that we are steering the project and making sure the client is understanding that we're reaching the best outcome, not a placement.

SPEAKER_01: 14:06

Yeah, and I I also think when when um recruiters have the concern at the start about what if we don't fill it and committing to fill, yes, it's the lack of understanding, as you've said, in what they're committing to, but also I think there is a fundamental lack of belief in their delivery process.

SPEAKER_02: 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

They don't believe it will they don't believe it will deliver because they're used to seeing it deliver 20% of the time, maybe 30% if they're they're really good and lucky.

SPEAKER_00: 14:35

Yeah, and that that often isn't because the delivery process in itself or the um the candidate identification process or the um attraction process is shit. It's not because they're not very good at what they're doing, it's normally because there isn't the uh process controls around it that mean that the client knows that those three people that we've ended up with on a short list are the best.

SPEAKER_02: 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:03

Because they haven't seen the workings, and you know, let's face it, contingent recruiters aren't trained in best practice research, and they're not trained in governing a project in the way that you need to on a retained basis to be able to be certain that by the time you get to the end, even if there are no candidates that fit the brief, the client will be happy. Yeah, because that's not what we're trained in, that's not what I was trained in. We're trained to get a job on and fucking find a candidate as fast as possible and get a CV over as quickly as possible, and that's fine, that's what we're all trained to do. Um, which is why so many people have got this, you know, this worry that well, if they give me some money and I can't find the CV, I'm I've failed. And they don't associate the the process with any element of that.

SPEAKER_01: 15:52

So yeah, I mean, but listen, you're always saying it is true. Um it's very rare I would recommend not winning work on a retained basis. The only time I would probably avoid it, or one of the only times, is if it's really difficult, it's really challenging, it's a tough search, and the client's a bit of a dick.

SPEAKER_00: 16:12

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01: 16:13

They won't work in partnership, they won't flex, they don't take advice and guidance and feedback. I think in that instance it's best to stay because they they totally, totally get in the way and sidetrape the delivery process.

SPEAKER_00: 16:27

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01: 16:27

And then it doesn't work, right?

SPEAKER_00: 16:30

Normally they're the ones that won't won't pay a retainer anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 16:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

Because you if if you're if you're articulating it in the way that we're all capable of doing uh based on all the people that you know we've come through the training, they they either then get it and go, oh, right, okay, fucking hell, right, I I can see why we're gonna need to do this, right? Well, let's do it, what does it look like? Um, or they're like, oh, I'm not gonna do that, and then that's okay because if they're gonna be an arsehole about it, you definitely don't want to be working in partnership with them here.

SPEAKER_01: 17:12

Yeah, yeah, and I think those of you listening who are in that boat thinking, oh, I'm like, what if I don't deliver? Trust me, it's you guys that will do best with this. Because the ones that care about delivery, that's so true, care care about doing a proper job, like you'll do you'll do brilliantly. It's the ones that don't care, that don't want to commit, that actually say when they go and gets tough, I want to bail. Yeah, so even though it's a bit of a misconception and it's maybe holding you back a little bit at the moment, actually, I kind of feel that's the fuel that will drive you forward.

SPEAKER_00: 17:43

A hundred percent such a good point, it's such a good point. Yeah, you are you you are absolutely right. You guys are the ones that do the best because you give shit. Yeah, and this is the only way that they're gonna reach a result, right? And if remember the surgeon situation, if anyone can do it, you can, and put a proper process in, and even if the best case scenario means the final outcome isn't quite what they expected, they will know that they are in the best possible position to make a decision as to what to do instead, and they will know that, and that's the worst case scenario, and they're still going to be grateful for you putting them in that position because they know that there is no other option.

SPEAKER_01: 18:23

Right, we tried, we didn't, and they will never say that you didn't.

SPEAKER_00: 18:27

Are you enjoying this so far? Don't miss a single episode. Hit the subscribe button right now so you can be part of the conversation that's shaping the future of recruitment. So we dive really deep into the strategies, the stories, and the truth about retained search. So if you want to hear more about it or you know someone else that needs to hear this, then share it with them. Right, let's get back to the good stuff. Ever.

SPEAKER_01: 18:58

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 19:01

Uh cool. I wanted to cover that. And I also wanted to share a few other things because there's been a lot happening. And uh while I've been away, uh you guys have been busy. Uh, we've been doing some work with the recruitment network, uh, the TRN, those of you that know them. Uh we do quite a few pieces with them. We've just been asked to do another session for them in January, which we're really looking forward to. And Anita, who we liaised with there, was just giving credit to us and our team, saying the members love us, um, as well as our team being lovely to work with, which I'm really proud of, because you can have a good you know, front to an organization and then you know the behind the scenes support not be so great.

SPEAKER_01: 19:48

And oh, we're very lucky, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00: 19:50

Very lucky through and through. Your own luck though, don't you?

SPEAKER_01: 19:54

Well, yeah, we find good people. Um we'd be crap recruiters if we didn't, right?

SPEAKER_00: 19:59

Yeah, we would, yeah, it would be a shame if we couldn't. Um somebody enjoyed up uh your presentation very much.

SPEAKER_01: 20:07

Um not that much. We have to exit.

SPEAKER_00: 20:10

He thinks you're the best delivery person in recruiting of them all.

SPEAKER_01: 20:15

Well, had a good coach.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

So did I, so did I. I've had lots of good coaches. Um, this is Charlotte. Uh I do one-to-one coaching in the mastery group, and um people find it very helpful. And Charlotte was saying the aerial view is so objective, it gives me clarity while I'm working in the weeds and I can get wrapped up in the day today. I appreciate you. I'm grateful for the support. She says, Oh, wonderful, which is nice. Oh, this is a nice one to Claire. Uh it says, Had my first person uh in-person pitch yesterday. Quite a lot of people are nervous about pitching in person, especially having spent so much time on Zoom. They say, I pulled out the laptop and presented, agreed, and committed to retained. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:08

Uh Jane.

SPEAKER_00: 21:11

Well done, Jane. Good job. Uh some feedback, candidate feedback. I'm just reading it through. So this is Joe, isn't it? A huge, this is a message from a candidate that's been through a retained process. A huge heartfelt thank you to my newest friend. You're alighted, I did not expect to shine so brightly. You shared it when I needed it. You're an incredible recruiter, even more stellar human. Can't wait to connect with you in Austin.

SPEAKER_01: 21:39

Very nice.

SPEAKER_00: 21:42

This is an interesting one, isn't it? Because I remember uh this came up on a coaching call, and this chap, uh Jonathan, was having a challenge with a client and at mid-search that was going starting to look like it was going to go pear-shaped. And that's what I what I love about one of the things that I love about our community that people are not afraid to say, I've got a project, it looks like it's going off track, I need help with it. And people get in early ahead of challenges and don't bury their head in the sand, which you learned quite early on, didn't you, George? It's not the thing to do.

SPEAKER_01: 22:17

Yeah, it's not at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:19

Um, he said, I had the meeting, told him what was going on in the trenches. The client was beyond delighted. Um, definitely the right move. It built enormous trust and goodwill. Thanks for the support yesterday. I hadn't made the decision to do it before we talked. I was on the call, but I hardly said anything. It was um uh Paul and Dennis and uh a couple of others that were on the call that were helping Johnny through the quite complicated.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

They're my favourite calls when I get when I get to sit there and then at the end I go, yeah, I'll do what they said.

SPEAKER_00: 22:50

What he said, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

Oh, this is nice, isn't it? This is one of yours.

SPEAKER_01: 22:56

Yeah, it's funny when people join us, I feel like there's never an in-between. Like they either think, Oh, I'm gonna find it much easier converting existing clients because they know me or they trust me, or they think that's gonna be really difficult because they know I work contingent, but I'll be able to go sell it to new people.

SPEAKER_02: 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:13

And Laura was the latter, I think she thought I'll be able to go sell it to new people, but I'll struggle with existing clients, and she's obviously found that isn't the case. I find both are equally as possible. Um, so yeah, converted my second existing client, did it on the fly tier, he called me out of the blue, needing help on a search, shared how we're working differently with our clients, explained it's not more money, just how we deliver and when we get paid are different and better. He agreed, didn't question it. Most C-level people I'm finding tend to get it. That's nine retained roles in less than two months. Pass me the wine.

SPEAKER_00: 23:44

Pass me the wine. Love it. Uh, and this one, and this is an old um colleague of mine. I've worked, I've we used to work with Michael about it's got to be about 10 years ago now. And uh he's posted in the group first retainer one, hello gang. I'm happy to let you know I've a first retainer approved. Thank you for the training. It works. I'm so glad he finally joined us.

SPEAKER_01: 24:11

Yeah, well, skip to the next one there.

SPEAKER_00: 24:13

We um I think he was in Singapore, if I remember rightly, when I was in Manchester, uh, but we never quite got to work properly together. No way, it's him again, isn't it? It says second retainer this week. I can't believe it. I've got another retained agreement approved. What a fantastic week it's been. On top of that, my first search fee's been paid today. What a Michael, nice work. I love it.

SPEAKER_02: 24:39

Great, isn't it? Very good.

SPEAKER_00: 24:41

We've got there eventually. Oh, and this one, right? I love this because I've just come back from Brazil and uh Ossian, one of our students who's been working with us for a long time now, uh, was one of the first, it was in the top uh the first 10 founding members uh to go through the training triage.

SPEAKER_01: 24:59

I was like saying it must be just a bit after I went through, right? Like not long at all, maybe six months, maybe it was just after you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:07

Yeah, yeah. So it was after we when we like launched the first cohorts through the online training. Yeah, we had 10 teams, and so yeah, Oss was on one of those teams, and this is back in 2020, and he's straight after the um straight after the programme, like he had a real shift in mindset um from not liking sales, not enjoying BD at all. He was fully contingent, and he sent me a message, and for those of you that see it on the screen, he says, Hey Lou, how are you? But funny news, my perspective on sales has changed so much that I can't stop trying to sell. And now I went to Austin's wedding last week in Brazil, which I'm delighted to have been there with him and his family, and he's doing a million dollars a year in retained, all retained and executive search work now. So I wanted to share how far he's come and how well he's doing.

SPEAKER_02: 26:10

This is Paul in Tokyo.

SPEAKER_00: 26:12

This is Paul in Tokyo. So there's somebody in our orbit, if you like, no, in our ecosystem, maybe that's the best word, uh, we talk about quite a lot, and that's a guy called David Wolstenholm. And he's fantastic uh at getting to the heart of you and your values. I'd say he's probably made he's certainly made me famous on LinkedIn, probably both of us. Um and we introduce him to people that are in the right sort of place for it, and Paul was one of them who sent an email saying, because of you, I must give thanks to Lou, Jordan, your whole community uh for bringing Dave into my life and my business. He's a precious find, he's generous, caring, and a hard case. It's true, it made me cry. And I'm already just seeing distinct, measurable, positive returns in my business based on his advice and strategy. And I'm just getting started, massively grateful. So it's a good move. Good move, that Paul.

SPEAKER_01: 27:09

He's a top guy, he is. And this is one from me last week. So I had uh I had an email from our members late at night basically saying, help me, please. Have you got time for a quick call? And our member Ryan had said he kind of found himself with the opportunity to pitch for probably the biggest opportunity of his career, right? For like a multi-billion dollar business to basically do all of their senior search work. And uh, yeah, he said, I've just sent them a contract, uh, confident they'll be signed, just a couple of negotiations around terms, that's all. Uh, I talked to my contract yesterday, and I think I'm gonna get three rec to start. Total pay out around 90k with a 46 split. I'm excited, Jordan. I never would have had this opportunity without you and retrained. I'm so thankful for your help along the way over the past year and a half that I've been a part of the community. I'll let you know how it goes when I get started.

SPEAKER_00: 28:03

Nice, that's amazing. Yeah, and I like you know, the journey doesn't stop, and the more work that we do um to keep evolving and keep um progressing, the training and the ecosystem and the community, the more people get and the more people enjoy it, and we measure our retention rates, we will measure our MPS score, and I love that. Ryan's a year and a half in, but many just rejoined, yeah. And OSS five years in and and making so much return on the investment of the help and support.

SPEAKER_01: 28:46

Um, it's but then they they become help as well, right?

SPEAKER_00: 28:51

Yeah, they do, yeah, they do. They're so many other people.

SPEAKER_01: 28:53

They want to sit on the co-hab calls and say, ah, Jordan helped me with this a year ago. This is what I did, and this is how it worked, and yeah, it's ever-evolving.

SPEAKER_00: 29:03

Oh, this is a nice one from Shauna, isn't it? Uh text response from a happy client after closing out a search project following this method. And the text says, likewise, you'll be the first person I call when we need another hire, and I know we will. Can I just add to that?

SPEAKER_01: 29:16

Sorry, can I just add to that for Shauna? Because she was on one of my cow lab calls this morning. Um Shauna was probably one of those recruiters when I first spoke to her that was over-delivering. She was probably doing too much of a good job for no commitment from the client. Um, and she told me today that since she started the training, she's never worked a role that isn't retained, right? Which is that isn't the reason I wanted to say this, right? What that's allowed her to do in delivery is go so far above and beyond what the rest of the market are doing that a huge player in her space has come to her over the past week and basically said, We can't deliver to the same standard that you can, but we're really, really good at. And we've got lots of huge clients. Can you do the delivery for us?

SPEAKER_00: 30:03

No way.

SPEAKER_01: 30:04

Which I just thought was interesting, right?

SPEAKER_00: 30:06

No way.

SPEAKER_01: 30:07

And they're fully contingent, right? So I want you know, I wonder what that well, I know what impact that has and why they can't deliver to the same standard.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

Well, yeah, don't we? Don't we all? And well, this is one that has been with you for so Selema's with you for about six months, I think. Seven months, yeah, something like that. And interestingly, she hasn't got much background in recruitment, has she? Like very green.

SPEAKER_01: 30:31

Yeah, yeah, she is.

SPEAKER_00: 30:32

Um started winning, so she says, Uh, one of our clients can't get enough of retained work as the subject. Since I started the training, we've won three retained projects over the summer with just one existing client. Those led to two additional and then more senior hires from the searches, and we've just won one more retained project with them. Thank you to the retrained team. I'm very grateful to be part of this community. And what I haven't got in here is an email that I got from her yesterday saying I've just won another project because she's moved from the search foundations course into the mastery group and she's now having one-to-one coaching with me. Another one of our Mastermind members here. Uh, she says, Hi all, I've been applying Lou's account management strategy over the past month, and yeah, it's a good and um I'm excited to share I've already hit my quarterly target just one month in. The team is also taking on responsibility and our report. But so far so good. July was our biggest month of the year, driven entirely by existing and dormant accounts. Between my current retained search pipeline, a mix of repeat and market intelligence studies, I'm on track to hit 70% of my annual target by the end of August. That's the first quarter.

SPEAKER_01: 31:38

75%.

SPEAKER_00: 31:40

75%, is that not what I said?

SPEAKER_01: 31:41

Said 70 of that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:43

Oh, thanks, Lou. Thanks, Lou, it's paying off. Um, and then another one. Who's this Vinco? I've just hit my last I love Vinco. Yeah, I mean, he's in Czech, what um Croatia. If you can do it in Croatia, you can do this anywhere. So nobody's saying it doesn't work in my fucking region.

SPEAKER_01: 32:01

He is he is an absolute hustler in the best sense of the words. That's awesome. My favorite story of 2025 was he said, um, I've pictured into a new prospect, and they're like a double glazing manufacturer. And he said at the end, they hit me with the objection, can you do it any cheaper? So I was like, right, okay. So did you handle it? What did you say? He said, Well, I thought I need new windows in my house. So I said, Yeah, I'll make it cheaper if you give me free double glazing.

unknown: 32:35

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00: 32:37

And uh, it is funny. Last time I spoke to him, it was a project for carpet fitters.

SPEAKER_01: 32:41

Yeah, just do anything, it's great. I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

It just doesn't matter what level, and it doesn't matter where it is, like that's a classic example. It's like it's just a different methodology of sales and delivery, he does love it. So he just says, I've hit I've just hit my last year's revenue with one recruiter less in my team, retained way plus the help of AI, and also a lot of work did this. Thank you to the retrained team and this great community. Nice one, Vinco. I say well done, you me too.

SPEAKER_01: 33:10

Me too. It's just like he keeps asking me to go to Croatia for a night out, but he's a type of individual that going on a night out with Vinco petrifying me. You might never see me again on a pump.

SPEAKER_00: 33:21

No, you might not come back alive.

SPEAKER_01: 33:23

No, I know.

SPEAKER_00: 33:24

I know you'd probably be in a lot of trouble with your wife as well.

SPEAKER_02: 33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

Um, so we're loving life right now and loving what you guys uh are getting up to out there. Well done to everybody that we've shouted out today. Um, we've been helping people that are on the on the journey, haven't we, with lots of different things along the way. What have you been helping people with recently?

SPEAKER_01: 33:48

I often talk about technical things and like delivery or this, but overcoming this challenge with customers. I just think mindset's a big one, just a bit of belief. Right? But and I like to think I'm I'm naturally quite self-confident. No, I am and I kind of believe, you know, it's rare that I'll get nervous though. I I used to. I mean, Sarah still talks about when we did that in-person event in Birmingham, and she saw me with my cue cards like shaking, and I'm much better with that now. But I think sometimes it's easy for us to forget because we do so much of this. Um speaking to one of our members the other day going into that big pitch that we talked about a minute ago, yeah. It was just a confidence thing, and actually, if you could distill what I could what I said to him in the space of 30 minutes, it was basically shut up, stop overthinking it. You've got this, it's no different, just go and do it. But he's put the work in at the front end, uh he does know it and he has got it. Yeah, that's the difference, right?

SPEAKER_02: 34:56

Yeah, like he knows the process, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 35:00

He's got the pitch, he knows how to handle the objections. He too was one that said, but I haven't pitched in person in like a year and a half. And I'm like, So, like, do you want me to come and sit in the meeting room with you and hold a webcam in front of you? Because it's like the same thing, right? There's just a screen in between you or not, yeah. You know it, you've got it, just do it.

SPEAKER_00: 35:20

Yeah, yeah, that's so nice, it's so true. And it's funny you bring that up because I often talk about technical things as well, and this week um something's cropped up that that hasn't hasn't been technical, and won't by the time uh business owners and founders, leaders get to our master mastery group, they've got there through going through that process. You Ryan's someone that will be in the uh mastery group, I'm sure, um, of doing the work, right? They've learnt it, they they understand it, they've applied the applied it in practice, and they've they've learned more on the journey. You know, Ryan says he's a year and a half um into the journey now and consistently winning and just getting bigger and bigger. And those typically are the people who are the people that that succeed, right, in um in in business, because that's those are traits that mean that you succeed. The challenge with that is that, and you and I aren't dissimilar, George. We've we share a similar uh profile to those, quite high high utilitarian, and there's a uh high individualistic um there too, but there's a lot of pressure on themselves and a lot of uh dis discipline and diligence in their work and their working practices, and that can take its toll on the person and the emotions of the person, and so I sometimes see people that aren't as diligent at looking after them themselves, their soul and their mind, um, personally and emotionally, as well as they are looking after their business. And so some of the work and the space that I've been creating for uh a couple of business owners is is working through that and applying as much discipline to our personal well-being and emotional well-being as we do to our businesses because I have to do it as well, I have to make myself go.

SPEAKER_01: 37:23

Well, listen, I I've I I've struggled over the past month without not being able to play padlow tennis. And I said this to my wife, it's because when I'm playing padlow tennis, it's genuinely probably the only time I'm not thinking about work.

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01: 37:39

I it's sad to say, even when I'm with my little girl and we're um I'm still thinking I need to send that email later, and I've got I've got that call that I need to prep for tomorrow, and it's like it's all consuming, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 37:50

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01: 37:51

You've got to find that time.

SPEAKER_00: 37:53

Yeah, and also this particular business owner is struggling with a decision um that they have to make, and decision making can be challenging uh at the higher levels because you know the further you go, the more lonely it is, right? Um and it and it can be really instrumental, it's not a small decision, this is a big, big decision that um needs to be made, and it reminded me of the book. I was gonna ask if you'd read it, but um you might have listened to a podcast on it, Malcolm Gladwell uh Blink, for those of you that are listening. I might I've probably mentioned it before, but it's very, very good at helping with decision making because but what it basically does is is um talk through what a snap decision is. A lot of people you see making what you think is a snap decision or a quick decision, and actually it's not, it's years and years and years and years and years of work in the field that's leading you to be able to be in a position where you can make a quick decision. So it looks like it's an off the cuff, but it's not. And the example that um it always sticks in my mind is uh there's the there's this archaeological dig and they unearth something that's never been found before in this world, right? And it's from another world pretty much, and they can't figure out where it's come from, how how old it is. It's a piece of art, it's some kind of art, um, but they're and they clean it and they inspect it, they bring all experts in from all over the world, um, and they have a global project to work out how it's got to where it is and what it is, and they do loads of different tests on it, and nobody can figure out how old it is, or none of the tests are reading accurately, and they can't date it and they can't place it. And they bring this woman in who isn't she doesn't use tech, she's not a scientist, but she's spent 50 years examining archaeological artifacts and and understanding and working back and through old school methods working back and working out where they've come from. And she walks in, and after they've been doing this for a year, and within 10 seconds of being in the room with that piece, she dates it, and they go, ridiculous. You can't just say that, and she just says it's this, it's from this era, I can't quote it because it's years ago since I read it, in this era, and it's from this place, and it's it's roughly like this, and gives a really accurate dating. And they didn't believe her, they spent another two years doing a whole shitload more, loads of tests. Anyway, years later, they found out that it is it's exactly when she said it was and exactly where it's from. But they thought that she just had a gut reaction, but she hadn't. It was all of those years of experience that meant that just the the smell of the dust, the the the feeling of it, that just all of those things meant she can make. So, what I you know like to help people to do is to have like it's all you did with Ryan, really, is go, right, you've you've learned this, you know this, you've got the confidence to be able to do it. Now go with your go with your got instincts in that room and you'll it'll serve you. And have it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:52

Well, I say the same thing about Michael. This didn't happen overnight. This is years. This is years in the making of belly.

SPEAKER_00: 41:03

Um so I was I'm helping to this business owner to uh prioritize self-care in in order for that got decision for that to to be able to surface. Um something else that I've been oh yeah, the other thing that's come up, and it's come up twice um only since I've been back, is closing projects. So what we're finding at the moment is there's a lot of stalling going on, and there's a lot of uh disjointed decision making going on within um part way through sales processes. Uh Selen had one that uh we've just got over the line, and um, there's another one going on in the mastery group too. And what we're finding is successful at getting these over the line isn't um just pushing for what's the update, or have you looked at this proposal, or um you know, just bumping this to the top of your inbox, just those kind of standard generic pushing. It's getting an understanding, it's like all these things, like just back to diagnosing again. Is this something that actually needs to be done? Right, let's just get clear on that. Because if it isn't, park it and then I'll fucking leave you alone. There's no point not getting clear on that because if it isn't something that needs to be done now, let's put a pin in it and let's talk about it in this day. If it is something that needs to be done and it needs solving, you I, you know, what I what we're finding is working is you as a consultant be taking responsibility for getting that over the line. It is your job to make that happen, and rather than think, oh, should I chase them? Shouldn't I? Think, okay, they need to get this done. This is my project. I now need to get this done, right? So I need to find the CFO, I need to go and fucking visit them and say, this CEO needs to get this piece of work done. I'm here to help. What needs to be done to make sure that we can move this forward for them? And it's your job to be on their side and to get it over the line. And that's what we've had to do. We've had to tie several different people together. In the end, Celène went down with the agreement and took it to the CFO's office and said, Michael needs to get this project done. He's asked me to help in everywhere I can. Here I am, it needs to be signed. She signed it.

SPEAKER_01: 43:14

I've been thinking I should start doing that with our prospects. Um loads of customers in Mauritius at the moment.

SPEAKER_00: 43:20

Yeah, that's where you should go.

SPEAKER_01: 43:21

Yeah, yeah, I might as well have to take the agreements along.

SPEAKER_00: 43:25

Um so, with that in mind, um I wanted to leave you all with those key things that we've covered from a perception that taking the financial commitment means that you have to fill it. It doesn't. It's just not true and it's not accurate. And I get that you've got that perception, but it's not that's not it. And if anyone can solve it, then you can with some financial commitment, but you need to put the right process in.

SPEAKER_01: 43:55

You're the only hope.

SPEAKER_00: 43:57

Exactly. You know, is it what you are they're gonna die or should we do the operation? And that self-care, if you have a tendency to put too much pressure on yourself, um, then you're probably not gonna perform at your best if you're not prioritizing your self-care in the same way that you are your work. And that if you've got a project, you need to get it over the line, check whether you they do need it done, and if they do, then see it as your job. As your first stage in the project is to actually get it launched, basically. Yeah, and we'll see you in a couple of weeks' time.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

Something like that, I would have thought.

unknown: 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:40

Have fun, guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Jordan.

SPEAKER_01: 44:44

Thanks, Lee.

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search, the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, LinkedIn controversies, and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrained search.com. And don't be shy, connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi. We don't bite, unless you're a track firm, that is. We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundation's program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently. And we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrain Search the Podcast.