Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained Discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead.

Speaker 2: 0:20

I do Right, let's jump into it then. Welcome everybody. Welcome to the Retain Search Show. I am delighted today to be joined by Pete Watson. So Pete is founder of Mint R2R Rect2Rect the longest serving Rect2Rect business, I believe, in Australia.

Speaker 3: 0:40

Unless somebody sneaks out of the woodwork that I'm not aware of. That is me, correct, I love that.

Speaker 2: 0:45

I love that. What a claim. And you are also the driving force behind Recruitment United, which I feel very fortunate to have been able to, I suppose, look behind the curtain with Recruitment United over the past kind of six or 12 months, a platform that is bringing recruiters together in Australia to learn, to grow and to collect like probably never before, really, in terms of other people I've seen trying to do a similar thing. And you're also behind multiple podcasts, community initiatives and some major success stories in both the UK and Australia.

Speaker 3: 1:27

Basically, I'll have a crack at anything that takes me away from running a desk on a daily basis.

Speaker 2: 1:33

I'm here. I really do. Well, that's what I want to explore today. Right, I want to explore your journey, the story behind Recruitment United and where that's come from your insight into the evolving world of recruitment and the evolving world of recruitment in Australia as well including a bit of retained search, if that's okay, 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:56

So let's jump into it. Tell me first of all, how is life in your corner of the world today? It's a lot later where you are. Tell everyone where you are and how you finding things in australia at the moment. What's going on in the market?

Speaker 3: 2:09

so I'm based in melbourne, mate, I've been, I've been here for. So my, my little recruitment business is 21 years old and I've been on the ground in australia for 18 years and, um, it's an, it's an, it's an average market at the moment. Right, um, right, there's plenty of us recruiters are whinging, but there's also plenty of recruiters. I spoke to a partner in a very respected brand only this morning and he said we've just had two phenomenal quarters. And he said even the disciplines that usually struggle are doing all right. So, look, there's plenty of positive signs. It ain't that bad. We've just got to work a bit harder, I agree.

Speaker 2: 2:53

I think more than ever I'm hearing differences in experience of the current market based on vertical. Yeah, so exactly the same. I've spoken to some people recently that have said the last 18 months has probably been the hardest 18 months I've had in recruitment. And then I spoke to two companies yesterday, back-to-back in kind of green tech renewables. Both of them said well, we are absolutely flying.

Speaker 3: 3:23

Yeah, yeah, and I think I heard a stat recently that the market is still growing at a greater percentage than it was pre-COVID. Really, so, you know, it ain't that bad. It ain't that bad. You just got to put in a harder shift, Work smarter.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Jordan Work smarter, work smarter. And actually in downturns, and there probably is a and actually in downturns and there probably is a little bit of a downturn in some spaces at the moment. I think it's a huge opportunity to get ahead, like whenever it's tough, whenever markets are tough, there's always winners, you know, and whether that winning is now or whether it's setting yourself up for success in two, three, six, 12 months, like the tap turns back on again, 100%. Too many people they stop the hustle when it's tough, right, because it's tough, and for me, it's the times of double down, if anything.

Speaker 3: 4:16

They stop the hustle, but they also fall by the wayside. The amount of people that, in periods like this, will either go internal People in periods like this will either go internal, leave the industry, give up the ghost, retire whatever it is, and when that tap does get turned back on, if you've been ever present and noisy and visible, then who are they going to come?

Speaker 2: 4:37

to. Yeah, I absolutely agree, I do Good. So, before we dive in, you and I are both Northern lads and I'm conscious that some of our listeners are in Australia. A lot of them are, but a lot of them are in the UK. Tell me a bit about where you grew up. Tell me a bit about early life, before you moved over to Australia.

Speaker 3: 4:56

Mate. I'm from Cumbria, the Lake District, and whenever I say that everybody says, oh, it's lovely in Cumberland.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Listen. My in-laws own a motorhome dealership up in the Lake District.

Speaker 3: 5:10

Whereabouts.

Speaker 2: 5:11

They're on the main, A road into Windermere, oh lovely. There's a little village called Ings Village on the way into Windermere and there's a petrol station just on the left-hand side there, and they're next door to that petrol station.

Speaker 3: 5:27

Well, I would love to pretend that I'm from somewhere as beautiful as Windermere, but I'm not. I'm more inland, where there's lots of chimneys, lots of rugby teams, too much underage drinking and lots of shit. But that's where I grew up and I think over here in Australia I've only met one other recruiter, originally from Cumbria, so there's not many of us. But I ran pubs for many years in Manchester, until a mate of mine who's still in recruitment was working for Computer Futures and he rang me up on the pub pay phone one day and I'll be honest, he was gloating and he said how's it going running pubs, mate? I said oh mate, I'm king of the castle, listen to my keys. And I said how are you doing in this?

Speaker 3: 6:16

What's it called Recruitment? What's that? He said oh mate, I'm killing it. I've just picked up an 11 grand bonus. I went 11,000 pounds. What for an annual bonus? He went nah, for a monthly bonus. I said right, get me in on that action. So shortly after that, after much scrapping to be accepted, I got a job at Progressive Computer Recruitment, part of the S3 group in Manchester, and it was the heady Wolf of Wall Street. Work hard and play harder days.

Speaker 2: 6:51

It's amazing how many people I speak to now that are really well respected, very well established in our world. That started off at S3.

Speaker 3: 7:07

I'm sure there are similar businesses across the marketplace historically, but one of the best places to cut your teeth? Learn your craft, learn the do's and definitely learn the don'ts, because we were taught some interesting methodologies. But I've still got some brilliant mates who I worked with all those years ago and, yeah, because it's a little bit like being in the army when you work for the SV Group, you become brothers in arms.

Speaker 2: 7:36

Yeah, I get it. I get it, I do. So let's jump into the exciting stuff. So you're behind Mint. Rack2rack Recruitment, united Recruitment Ignited several podcasts as we discussed. Can you give us the big picture on all of those things and kind of how they play in with each other? Tell us a little bit about what you do in each of those businesses?

Speaker 3: 8:02

Yeah, it makes me sound like I mean, I also run Recruitment World Cups and Recruitment Euros and the reason I do these things. I made a recruitment World Cups and recruitment Euros and the reason I do these things. I made a decision years ago, right? So I've been running my business for 21 years and, without a shadow of a doubt, if you do something for 21 years, it becomes repetitive and mundane. There's no, you know, it doesn't matter how much you love it, and sometimes you love it, sometimes you hate it, sometimes you're thinking about how I get out of it. Sometimes you've got the best job in the world, um, but it is mundane and repetitive and I decided a long time ago that it was my responsibility to keep my life interesting, right, otherwise it was going to drive me insane.

Speaker 3: 8:41

So I just started doing lots of different bits and pieces. Uh, I created a, a mentors project where, you know, experienced people just help less inexperienced people. We have charity football tournaments every two years and we're about to raise 200, sorry, 100 grand for Eat Up Australia, the podcast you know podcast, I believe it was I launched the first recruitment-specific podcast in Australia and I've tried bits and pieces and they're all kind of cool in their own little ways, but the one that's got me the most excited and the one that I hope is going to continue for many, many years, and the one that I hope is going to be my legacy, if you will, but allow me to leave the recruitment industry in a better condition than I found. It is Recruitment United.

Speaker 2: 9:37

Tell us more about that, Pete. Why is that something you're so passionate about? What is that legacy you're hoping to leave with it?

Speaker 3: 9:55

Not all of us, but most recruit recruiters. I was definitely on this path. Uh, will limp out of the industry after 10, 15, 20 years service, having done nothing but taken from the industry, and I was. You know I was going to be one of them and you know I sort of accepted that that's my lot and that's life and everybody does that in whatever industry or profession they have.

Speaker 3: 10:10

But about 15 months ago I was literally on the treadmill where I do all my best, thinking and I was thinking what have I missed out on by being a small agency owner? And it was obvious I'd absolutely missed out on community and colleagues and peers. You know my life was somewhat isolated, dare I say, lonely. Lots of positives about freedom taking the dog for a walk, taking the kids to school Should have done that in the other order Kids to school, dogs for a walk they're the kids of the priority. Lots of benefits, but lots of negatives, and the main one being isolation, loneliness. You had nobody to speak to, nobody to bounce off, nobody to learn from, no mentors, nobody to help. So I knew I'd miss out on community. So that afternoon, post-treadmill, I created that dodgy logo that you can see above me. I called it Recruitment United because united is an applicable word, but it's also homage to my awful football team and if I'd have known that, I don't think I'd have had you on the podcast yeah, and I'm not talking about Leeds and mate.

Speaker 3: 11:21

Within the first week there was 65 people in this WhatsApp group. Within four or five months there was something like 300 people in this WhatsApp group. So I realized very early on that there was appetite for community. So I thought, well, I need to commit. If I'm going to do this, I need to do it properly.

Speaker 3: 11:38

So I stood in my own shoes for a minute and I thought what else, aside from community, have I missed out on by being a small agency owner? And the other things were L&D. I had not invested in recruitment, training, external expert advice, like retrained for 21 years, because too tight. I just didn't see the bigger picture. I was too busy on the treadmill trying to chase the next deal. But I thought, if I can bring um high value lnd to this community, um at a price point where it's it's more palatable, then great I'm, I'm helping people raise the game.

Speaker 3: 12:20

So that was one part lnd. The other part was was obviously community. The other, the other part was mates, rates, you know, discounts, um. There are so many tools and crms and softwares and ai, everything's the. There's a smorgasbord of things that we need to um to operate as as recruiters in this day and age and I've now got 60 negotiated mates rates within recruitment united in in what I call the recruitment shopping channel, which all of my members have access to. We also have an in-house mentoring program. We have an in-house job sharing platform. We do a lot of stuff for charity and volunteering events and then we get together and it's all tied up in a little pink bow and put out there at an affordable price. And I know for a fact, and I'm remarkably proud of the fact that I am helping small agency owners in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 2: 13:14

I'm making their life easier and and that's a pretty, that's a pretty cool thing to be doing, uh, in the twilights of my career it really is, and it's interesting because, as you know, um, I've ran a couple of webinars, masterclasses for your community and I spoke to several of your members and for me they all seem to have a similar outlook to personal development.

Speaker 2: 13:47

They have similar aspirations in terms of wanting to achieve and grow and develop. What do you see in the community Pete? What makes a good Recruitment United member? If people are out there listening now, what do you see as a consistent theme through the membership they have to?

Speaker 3: 14:09

be embracing of community. We, as recruiters, were told a long time ago, it was ingrained in us, it was tattooed on our foreheads don't trust the competition, don't get anywhere near them, don't talk to them. And I reject that archaic teaching and say to anybody who's open minded that you know, if you put an arm around the competition, you're going to benefit way more and they will benefit more, uh, than if you keep them at arm's length. So you have to be prepared to embrace community, you have to be open-minded to growth and development and and learning. Um, and and you probably there's a lot of people out there who sort of wear old school as a badge of honor. I'm old school, you know. I don't do all AI what AI bullshit, you know.

Speaker 3: 14:59

And it's like there's a lot of people who are old school and proud and I've got old school recruiters within Recruitment United. In fact, I've got one guy, who shall remain nameless, who's a phenomenal recruiter, top of his game, high performer, big revenue generator, and he said to me he said, look, I came into Recruitment United reluctant. He said what am I going to learn? You know, because I'm old school, I know everything that there is to know. And he said he has implemented three or four things that he's learned within Recruitment United that have not necessarily made him more money but just made his life easier to the point where he's now pulling back two or three hours a day that he would have been wasting on old school chores within recruitment. So it's just open minded, it's just a willingness to embrace community people who want to learn about the modern techniques of recruitment, and that's probably it, mate.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Yeah, nice, that's really good, Really really good. So talk to me about the L&D focus. I'm really interested in the gaps you see small business owners have when they come to Recruitment United. If we look at the recruitment market in general, what are the main areas you see as opportunities to develop for these business owners? What are the blind spots they maybe have when they join you that they don't see? That you kind of help shine a light on?

Speaker 3: 16:28

Yeah, so I've learned. You know recruitment. Yeah, it's relatively new, but in the early days of recruitment united, I was trying to make the, the webinars, left to field and cool and eclectic and I very quickly realized that people aren't interested in that. They want to learn something on monday that they can implement on tuesday and be making more money out of on Wednesday, thursday and Friday. So, if you so, look, the hot topics of course in this market are BD and we've got some phenomenal trainers who come on and do BD masterclasses and objection handling and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3: 17:03

But there's things like I mean, look you guys, you guys have done a couple of webinars for us and I think I told you this story, mate.

Speaker 3: 17:11

But there's a lad in the community who is based in regional New South Wales or regional Victoria, it doesn't matter, he's out in the country, and when I say regional, that's like the outer Hebrides, if anybody's living in the UK to this podcast, if anybody's living in the UK to this podcast, and people who work in regional country Australia don't typically get access to people like you, jordan, but because of our affiliation with Retrained and the webinar that you did, I think I told you the story.

Speaker 3: 17:43

After listening to one of your webinars. The following morning he sat at his desk and he had 16 live jobs and he knew he had no guarantee of filling any of them, so he took I don't know how he selected them, but he took half of them. He took eight of them and he pitched, based on what he'd learned from you and the confidence that he had uh, learning or listening to you and how you framed it very simply, he took that education piece and he pitched retained work to eight of them and he converted six of them on the spot and on the spot subsequently he trebled his revenue for that quarter. So there's not enough of us doing well old school, old school BD and modern school BD, but there's definitely not enough of us doing well old school, bd and modern school BD, but there's definitely not enough of us doing retained work.

Speaker 2: 18:34

It's funny you tell that story. It's just really timely because, I'm not kidding, I had a LinkedIn message 24 minutes ago. I was making my coffee when it landed in my inbox, right, and I did a LinkedIn post about that story yesterday. I don't know if you saw it, I didn't mention any names, but just basically saying did a webinar and this is what I was told was the outcome, and that individual that you're talking about had just dropped in my LinkedIn inbox saying hi, joe, just wanted to say that post you did really resonated with me because that's exactly what happened to me. That's him.

Speaker 2: 19:11

It's called an anonymous because he doesn't know it was about him.

Speaker 3: 19:16

And he said he didn't say it was easy. Well, actually he did say it was easy. He said I just framed it in a certain way. I just basically said exactly what Jordan told us to do in the webinar, and they just went yeah, okay, they just went, they just said, yeah, fine, I mean it's not rocket science.

Speaker 2: 19:34

You're a great person to kind of give some insight on this Pete just because of your relationship with business owners, both through Mint, rectorac and Recruitment United. Yeah, how commonplace is it? How many times do you speak to a recruitment business in Australia that consistently wins retained business?

Speaker 3: 20:01

I just don't think it's taught. I think there's a generation of recruiters, the older recruiters, who dabble in it, but I don't think it's taught as a craft. I don't. There's certain businesses that I know do it very, very well the smart businesses, like the really successful businesses, because they know, they know it's the best type of recruitment that there is. But I'm a perfect example, mate. I'm 52 years old, I'm 21 years in the game and all of those voices pop into your head when you're selling a retainer or when I've been approached to do retainers so many times over the years and I usually reject them because I just voices in my head thinking it's going to be too difficult, too much pressure, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever don't fill it, negative, negative, negative. And then you just run with the contingency process and, yeah, guess what? You might not fill it.

Speaker 1: 20:56

Are you enjoying this so far? Don't miss a single episode. Hit the subscribe button right now so you can be part of the conversation that's shaping the future of recruitment. So we dive really deep into the strategies, the stories and the truth about retained search. So if you want to hear more about it or you know someone else that needs to hear this, then share it with them. Right? Let's get back to the good stuff it's interesting, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 21:26

I mean your point around there's a couple of more experienced people that do it well, right, and it's funny because that's the journey that I see. So many people go on that career contingent recruiters and then, as they get a bit older, maybe they get a bit time, poorer, right and they get a little bit more confident because they've got that experience. They almost end up falling into doing some retained work. I go, oh, that's possible, and they do retain me. And actually if they tell me, no, at this point I'm not really bothered, I'm quite happy to have the free time and they start winning retained business.

Speaker 2: 22:03

And actually, what I find amazing is and maybe it's that competition piece you talked about, right, that we're a little fearful of competition. They should be going to the 30-year-old recruiters saying you guys should be doing retained, because if I'd have known this 25 years ago, I'd have been doing this for the last 25, 30 years, but they don't. And what it means is that we've got an army of 30-year-old recruiters all thinking I've got to be 60 before I can do retained. I know that guy over there does it, but he's been doing this for 30 years and he's got the network and it isn't the network, it isn't who you know, it's the process. It's just having something that's repeatable and believing in it and then following through with delivery right.

Speaker 3: 22:48

Imagine if you're a rookie recruiter and we know that rookie recruiters they get that 12 week induction or whatever it might be and they learn about candidate qualification and client visits and BD calls and all the interview prep and all that stuff. None of them get getting taught retained. None of them are getting taught retained. There's a there's somebody in my community who I actually gave a lead to um the other day and I knew that. I knew that the client was pretty, um, they were in a certain part of the world and, uh, I knew they were going to be open to ideas and I said to them I said why don't you just pitch retainer? I'm like, oh my god, really you think, yeah, do it. And we both got really excited.

Speaker 3: 23:34

And then they and then I got a text message about two hours later. So, yeah, retainer sold. So, oh my god, just just put it out there, put it out into the universe, have the conversation and it's amazing. And if they say no, what have you lost? Nothing. You've still got the job contingent and you know what I?

Speaker 2: 23:50

we run these masterclasses and we run sessions for communities like yours and the funny thing is often people come off them in the same way that member did that we discussed. Right, I'm going to go and sell this to these eight clients of mine because actually hearing that it's pretty straightforward and it's possible. The thing is that often it doesn't even need to be that good. The bar in recruitment is set really, really low when it comes to pitch and retain, and often just having the balls to do it is enough.

Speaker 2: 24:28

So many people come to me and join our program, because they've gone out there and they've winged it. They've pitched retain, thinking there's no way the customer's going to say yes and the customer's gone yeah, okay, that sounds like a good plan. Then they go. Shit. I don't know what to do, right, like so. Just to have the courage to go out there and have the conversation is often enough one of my clients, uh, preaches to his team regularly.

Speaker 3: 24:53

One of his favorite phrases is 10 seconds of bravery. If you can find 10 seconds of bravery on a daily basis in those hard conversations, you're on to a winner, yeah yeah, I absolutely agree and it's worth noting um, when I say, just having the bravery to do it is enough not to build something that would stay consistent, scalable.

Speaker 2: 25:14

There needs to be a bit more of a plan. But so many people you can go out there and win a retainer tomorrow just by having the conversation and mentioning the word retain. Then you've got to look for it and that's often a different story, right? Often a different story, right? How do you see the future of recruitment? I know that's a big question. The future of recruitment in Australia, right, but if we look at that retained piece, I was talking to someone yesterday about my prediction that that high volume, low touch recruiter will be replaced over the next few years with things like AI and adoption of internal talent teams, and the people that are really going to succeed, in my opinion, are the ones that add real value, that care about the customers, that build partnerships, that solve big problems for them. How do you see recruitment evolving over the next few years, specifically in Australia?

Speaker 3: 26:10

I think the only thing that I can absolutely see rock-solid, tangible evidence of is that there is a kind of revolution happening where more and more people are going out on their own and I'm not just throwing that out there to conveniently tie it back into Recruitment United, but we're seeing it left, right and centre. I think it's never been more acceptable to go out on your own and it's never been easier in terms of access to tools to go out on your own.

Speaker 1: 26:47

And I think people.

Speaker 3: 26:48

you know, when I started Mint Recruitment 21 years ago, you used to do stupid little things like give yourself a CBD address on your website, give yourself a 1-800 number to make it look like you had a switchboard. You know, get all your family's faces on the website to make you look bigger than you actually were, because it was embarrassing to be a small business. Now the business community embraces micro-businesses and it's not embarrassing to be a working parent and to have your own business at the same time and I think more and more people are doing it and we've also got access to all of these tools, which allows us to compete with the big boys.

Speaker 2: 27:27

Yeah, you've got a legal team at the tip of your fingers and you've got a marketing consultant and you've got all these things with AI that are accessible 100%.

Speaker 3: 27:37

You've also got these amazing communities, things like Recruitment United, which basically elevate you and make you feel part of a team.

Speaker 2: 27:46

Have you seen a shift with your members in terms of AI, in terms of the tools and the tech that they're using? Have you noticed a big change over the past couple of years?

Speaker 3: 27:57

It's all they talk about. Well, we have a WhatsApp group thriving WhatsApp group and AI is the main thing they talk about and so many people have got their finger on the pulse and they do every single demo and they've got every tool clicking away. Some people are scared of it because they just don't know where to begin, but 100% everybody not everybody 95% of people are using AI in some way, shape or form, even old farts like me, and we had a presenter, a guy called Timin uh, who's a bit of an ai guru do a webinar to recruitment, united and very simply and it was jaw-dropping stuff and very simply at the end he said look, ai is as bad as it's gonna be today. What you say, see, today, ai wise is rubbish compared to what it'll be in six months time. And if you don't get on the train, you will be left on the platform and um I think anybody who's not not utilizing or embracing ai in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 3: 28:59

You know you're running a dangerous game and for those of you listening.

Speaker 2: 29:02

So I'm going to use this as an opportunity to plug as well. Um, any of you sitting there thinking what pete just said is me that whole. I'm scared of it and I don't know where to even start. Me and Sarah are running a masterclass on the 18th of September AI-powered BD strategies. We're going to be kind of weaving BD into AI and showing you how you can use AI to kind of boost your BD and the work that you're doing on a daily basis.

Speaker 3: 29:30

But, mate, is it fair to say that AI, to some degree, will not impact a recruiter's ability to sell retainers?

Speaker 2: 29:41

Yeah, I mean for me, it won't impact the ability to sell retained. It will impact the ability to probably deliver it in a very good way, right, and that we can automate lots of the process that allows us to be able to do more, to be able to add more value. A dead simple example of that would be you know, when we run a proper retained search, we collect loads of data as we move through the process. We can collect anything that the customer wants, from salary insights or compensation and benefits, or what's the structure of the teams and their competitors' businesses. We can collect anything they want as we engage with these candidates.

Speaker 1: 30:23

But how is?

Speaker 2: 30:23

it now for us to plug all of that data into something like ChatGPT and say analyse it, pull together a report that gives the customer the insights they're looking for. That in the past was something that was kind of almost reserved for your corn fairies of this world right and their big research teams to produce glossy reports. Like we can do that now in like four minutes.

Speaker 3: 30:46

It's mind blowing, isn't it Right?

Speaker 2: 30:50

So I don't think AI will replace especially retained recruiters, right, or contingent recruiters. I don't think it will replace those recruiters that are building strong relationships and partnerships with customers right. I actually think those relationships will get stronger. Yeah, I imagine a world where every single email that people receive is perfect because it's been put together by AI and everything's glossy and looks brilliant and actually what will be really valuable to people is relationships.

Speaker 3: 31:22

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 31:24

They're the recruiters that I think will prosper over the next few years. Ai isn't a threat For me. It's a huge opportunity for all of us and I agree we've got to embrace it right.

Speaker 3: 31:35

But it is scary, Mate. It's fascinating times to live through. I would imagine it's tantamount to living through the industrial revolution. What we're experiencing right now, it's just bonkers.

Speaker 2: 31:48

Yeah, exactly yeah, I absolutely agree, I absolutely agree, I absolutely agree. 20-odd years, pete, you've been in this game now, oh, mate, what's one thing now, looking back, that you'd wish you'd known when you were on that phone in the pub talking about 11 grand bonuses. What's one thing you'd wish your mate would have told you then about what was to come?

Speaker 3: 32:17

um, that's deep. That's deep, but you know what? One of the um?

Speaker 3: 32:23

I had a moment of clarity only a few years ago, um, where suddenly I wouldn't say I stopped caring, right, I used to, I used to and this, you know, somebody might listen and listen to, this might go well, that that resonates but I used to stress over every single placement, every single interview. I used to chase every candidate. I was obsessive, and you know you could argue, being obsessive is, you know, a character trait that helps a recruiter but then the highs were ridiculously high and the lows were incredibly low, particularly dropouts. You know, when I had a dropout it was like somebody stabbed me in the heart 15 times and then one day and I can't explain it, I just stopped caring and I just thought you know what, everything's going to be all right.

Speaker 3: 33:22

If I lose a placement, if that interview doesn't go well or the candidate chooses to go to another ex-rec, everything will be fine. As long as I wake up tomorrow and do the right things and treat people with respect and remain visible and, you know, do the basics well, everything's gonna be okay. And I only learned that a few years ago, mate, and if I have my time again, I will go back to that young, fat, tied, shiny, cufflinked Patrick Cox-wearing dickhead at Manchester Progressive and I would just say to him I said, mate, everything's going to be fine, everything's going to be okay. Stop stressing.

Speaker 2: 34:00

And it feels like that's a guiding principle that comes across whenever I've been kind of within that Recruitment United community that I feel like you just do the right thing. Right, like if I mean this in the nicest possible way. If somebody said to me, tell me about Pete, I'd just say stand up, guy. Oh like yeah and that isn't always the case, right? So I'm sure I'll speak for all of your members when I say thank you for that, because it right, that's very kind, I do look, I look.

Speaker 3: 34:40

Uh, I don't care I don't take compliments. Very well, maybe it's the northerner in me, but uh, I, I, I, uh, it's. It's easy to be selfish in life. Right, it's really easy to be selfish in life and we are all selfish. Let's be honest, we all, we are all selfish. But if every now and then, you can be a bit selfless, then it goes far.

Speaker 2: 35:06

Absolutely, yeah, no, I absolutely agree. Okay. So, to recruiters listening in Australia, based on everything you see through Mint, through Recruitment United, what opportunities or challenges should they be paying closest?

Speaker 3: 35:24

attention to over the next 12 months. It just harks back to what we said at the beginning of this conversation. We are in a lull. We are in a lull and that's the challenge, but, as you say, it also presents the opportunity. Now is the time you work harder. Now is the time you raise your game. Now is the time you be way. Now is the time you raise your game. Now is the time you be way more visible on things like linkedin. Um, don't count on the old school methods, because they're they're they're called old school for good reason. Um, you know you need to get with the times. You need to be innovative and and forward thinking. You need to take yourself out of your comfort zone and do things that you think are difficult but are actually fairly straightforward, like sell more retainers and, yeah, brace yourself for when that market turns, because it shouldn't be far away.

Speaker 2: 36:11

I agree. You talked about kind of being more visible and present on LinkedIn. I think you've got over 26,000 followers now. Some crazy number, is that right?

Speaker 3: 36:23

Oh, mate, you say crazy, right, but it's been a grind to get to 26. I see I see some people they put like three posts out and suddenly they got 48 000 followers. I'm like why can't I be that guy?

Speaker 2: 36:31

and you know what it's. Hard, isn't it? I don't know if you saw. The other week I was on holiday in miyoka with the family and our marketing team were like we could do some video content while you're away. So I ended up filming a video. I'm not kidding. I was out on a boat, my boat. I jumped into the sea in my daughter's Peppa Pig swim goggles.

Speaker 2: 36:52

I filmed a video in the middle of the ocean in these Peppa Pig goggles and I'm thinking it's going to go viral 100% like it can't, not, it can't not. It's me nearly drowning in Peppa Pig sunglasses, swimming goggles. I think I got about 11 lines.

Speaker 3: 37:09

Right. I learned five years ago when I started on this LinkedIn content journey at the risk of sounding American that you should never try and second guess the algorithms, never try and outsmart the algorithms. The number of times I've dropped something, I thought that is like you, but that's gold dust and it gets largely ignored. And I think I've only gone viral once, and it was some nonsense post about if recruiters had been born in medieval times, we would have been burnt at the stake or drowned in the local duck pond. Ie perceived as witches. It was nonsense. I don't know where it came from. There must have been something in my tea that morning and anyway it went ballistic. It went nuts Like it went viral, genuinely viral, and I don't know why and I'm not even going to try and work it out. But, mate, yeah, linkedin again.

Speaker 3: 38:05

That's another thing. Right, if you're not on LinkedIn, if you're not, and you don't have to be doing videos in Peppa Pig sunglasses or whatever it might be. You just need to be delivering consistent, intelligent market information about your space and LinkedIn will listen. That's what the algorithm's like they look. They love good, sensible, intelligent market speculation, speculation and observation. If you do that, uh, the algorithms love you. Sadly, I never do that and that's why I'm. That's why I'm stuck on 26 and not 46 yeah, I get it, I get.

Speaker 3: 38:39

Good.

Speaker 2: 38:41

So if I'm a recruiter sitting in Australia, tell you made the idea of starting my own business, yeah, do it. I was about to say. What advice would you have for that person?

Speaker 3: 38:58

Oh it's. I mean, this is a. This is a psychologist's wet dream, right? Because there are. There are some people that will start a recruitment business with six months recruitment experience and they will fly, and they'll be veterans with 20 years experience that won't even think about it. No, it's not me, it's not in my DNA, can't live without that paycheck, and there's no right or wrong answer. But all I will say is it's never been easier. It's never been easier to brand yourself properly, to market yourself properly. All the back office stuff is relatively straightforward. You've got community, you've got tools, you've got allies, you've got friends, you've got networks, you've got people who will help you. It literally boils down to self-belief and of course, it's hard. It's not easy. If it was easy, everybody'd be doing it, but it's it's. I will say it's as easy to be successful on your own as it is to be successful sitting in a global recruitment company. I know that for a fact yeah I'm going to talk about.

Speaker 2: 39:57

Challenges are probably just slightly different, right? That's all yeah, 100.

Speaker 3: 40:01

I mean I'm not even going to plug the fact that I've also got another business called Recruitment Ignited which helps people launch recruitment companies. But you know, while we're on the subject, I think if you've got a network, if you've got self-belief, if you've got some drive, it is actually a no-brainer.

Speaker 3: 40:20

That's the beautiful thing about recruitment. It's always been. There are other industries where you need a shop, you need premises, you need staff, you need stock. You don't need any of that in recruitment. You just need a brain, a phone, the internet and you're off to crack on.

Speaker 2: 40:34

What a great place. So I was going to say, leave it, pete, if I am one of those people sitting at home thinking I need a bit of pete watson in my life. If I'm going to make this step, I need recruitment united, I need recruitment ignited. Yeah, where can people find you, pete mate, if you can't find me on?

Speaker 3: 40:54

linkedin, then you don't know how to drive linkedin 26 000 people can p. Can Pete Watson mid recruitment? Well, look, I'm on LinkedIn, but my my phone number is 0432 666 701 and that's probably all you need. I will answer. Night or day, perfect even even when I'm in the middle of some hardcore Netflix.

Speaker 2: 41:19

I mean in all fairness. I think I called you at about 6am Australian time.

Speaker 3: 41:24

And I answered what an idiot.

Speaker 2: 41:26

I didn't even think. I think I'd sent a text message to Pete and he liked the text and I just thought, ah, I'll call him. And Pete went God, you're okay. And I'm like, oh my God, shit, what time is it? It was about half five in the morning.

Speaker 3: 41:42

Well, it's about half five in the morning. Well, mate, look, I mean, if you think that's impressive, you are conducting, you are hosting a podcast right now at 5am, mate, which is something I would never do. So that's off to you, lad.

Speaker 2: 41:52

Absolutely, absolutely. Well listen, pete. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. I know how busy you are, so we really appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your story, your insights, and for giving us a closer look at Recruitment United Mint and Recruitment Ignited and what's happening in Australia, especially in the recruitment world right now. We really appreciate it thanks for having me on mate.

Speaker 3: 42:13

I really do appreciate it and I look forward to you know, strengthening the affiliation between Recruitment United and Retrained over the years.

Speaker 2: 42:22

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So good for our listeners. Don't forget using Australia. We're going to be visiting next month to connect with recruiters, leaders and communities across the country, so make sure, if you'd like to meet up with those, you reach out. We'd love to buy you a coffee and understand more about where you're at and how we might be able to help. Um pete, it's been an absolute pleasure, as I knew it would be. Thank you so much for being on the show. Yeah, thanks again for joining us. Thank you, thanks, jordan, appreciate it soon.

Speaker 1: 42:53

Thanks, pete well, that's another episode of retrain search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retrained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 43:25

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.