Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead.

Speaker 3: 0:20

Hello how are you Hi? How are you?

Speaker 2: 0:22

Good Jordan, how are you mate?

Speaker 3: 0:23

You good, very well, very well.

Speaker 2: 0:25

Thank you, I'm very hot, it's a heat wave in the UK at the moment.

Speaker 3: 0:32

I heard oh my God, I've never met I say, a group of people I'm talking like 50 or 60 million here. I've never met a group of people less capable of dealing with heat. I've never met a group of people less capable of dealing heat.

Speaker 2: 0:46

I was chatting to my equivalent in the UK yesterday, ash Higgs, and he was saying that it was 33 yesterday.

Speaker 3: 0:58

I tend to work quite a lot from my local gym. I say gym, it's more like a health club. There's a cafe there and I play a lot of tennis. There's tennis courts and there's a gym and all that. So it works really well. But thank God they've got air conditioning, because I don't know how I'd survive it.

Speaker 2: 1:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, mate, I was in the UK. I've been a couple of times now, but I was there in when was it? When it happened 2015, I think it was and I went down, sort of just exploring down Oxford Street, and then I jumped on one of the buses and I was on the bus and I purchased one of the local newspapers and the front page was London heat wave in capital letters. And I looked at the phone and I looked at the weather and it was probably about 26, 27 degrees.

Speaker 3: 1:48

Yeah, welcome to the.

Speaker 2: 1:49

UK yeah, exactly Do you know what's ironic?

Speaker 3: 1:53

I spent a couple of weeks in Australia last year First time hopefully, I'll be back in October this year and I did a week in Melbourne and then I did a week in Sydney and it pissed out every day. Yeah, that was that. I think I came like the worst month of the year. Right, but I did that, is it? Bronte? To Bondi Walk yeah, I was like the only one, it was like raining.

Speaker 3: 2:20

no one else there, just just me, the hardened Brit, thinking I've got to do it. I've got to do it, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Well, mate, you wouldn't like. Today in Sydney it's torrential rain, gushing with wind. It's horrible outside. It got dark about 3.34 pm this afternoon and, yeah, it's not good. So we're expected torrential rain for the next three days, but officially, winter is here for us, so hence the weather winter go through to probably like September, october time, and then you kind of go in.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Yeah, about August, august, sort of September, and then it sort of starts to come good, and then December is when summer hits and it's, I feel, sorry for you with the weather you have in Sydney, but I don't at all.

Speaker 3: 3:09

Thank you for spending some time with us. Your background seems really, really exciting, so let's just jump into it. So welcome everybody to the Retained Search Show. We changed the name about a month ago. We're still quite new to this whole podcast game, Paris. I'm really looking to have Paris Matting with us today. Founder of Healthy People, Welcome Paris. Any podcasts before? Have you done these before? Is this your first?

Speaker 2: 3:37

one. Yeah, I've done a couple. I've done a couple here and across the UK and, yeah, so it's always a pleasure to be on podcast, because I think one I get to really talk about my passion, which is recruitment, and secondly, I get to hear the wonderful things that others are doing within the industry that we're in, including yourself and Louise. So, yeah, great to be here today. So thanks for having me.

Speaker 3: 4:03

My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for being with us. So, to start, tell us something unexpected about you. Tell us something that people might not know.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Yeah, so before recruitment I was a semi-professional tennis player.

Speaker 3: 4:17

Now we're talking. Welcome to the Tennis Podcast, everybody.

Speaker 2: 4:21

Yeah, it's just an hour of Wimbledon talk yeah, no, it's, it's, it's yeah so a lot of people didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 4:28

So I, um, I was aspiring to be a professional tennis player from a young age probably from the age of six is when I first really got into recruitment sorry, into tennis and then into recruitment in the later years, but uh, into tennis. So so, yeah, trained before after school, got into my teenage years, started to take it a lot more seriously and then I ended up leaving school quite early. I left two years before what we've got here which is called the HSC, and basically made a decision to pursue tennis full time, traveled, pursued it on at a semi professional level. And it was quite difficult at that stage because, unless you're sort of top 100, top 200 in the world, very difficult to make a living out of. And unfortunately, at the age of 22, I had a really serious injury. I tore my groin and that put me out for about a year. Really, uh, serious injury. I tore my groin and that put me out for about a year.

Speaker 2: 5:28

So I got back into it about, yeah, about the age of 23 and uh, I remember competing at a, at a tournament, and my coach afterwards pulled me aside and he said he said you don't have it in you anymore and I was like what do you mean? Of course, just because I lost this match doesn't mean that my heart's not in and he goes. It's not, he goes. I can just tell. And I was like wow. So we sat down. We got back to sydney, sat down and and made the decision to to to sort of hang the rackets up and um and quit full-time tennis and I don't think people appreciate.

Speaker 3: 5:54

So I listen, I, I, uh, I say I play a lot of tennis. I play a good standard, like the team I play in. We've just won our county championships and stuff like that, which is great. But I've only been playing tennis for like four years now probably. I started in the middle of Covid. It was one of the first sports you could play again in the UK. I'll do that because it gets me out of the house. The thing that's kind of blown my mind with it is the strain it puts on your body. Tennis my wife's, like you, are like a cripple you're 33.

Speaker 3: 6:27

I'm like you can't get in and out of the car and I'm like that's not me. The lads I play with are 23. They can't get in the car either yeah, yeah an injury? Yeah, it makes it difficult. Do you still play now?

Speaker 2: 6:39

yeah, uh, more socially. So, yeah, I, I sort of, at 23, hung the rackets up full time, obviously professionally. I was like that's it, I'm done. I ended up. I ended up after that, though, getting my coaches coaching license. So I coached tennis for probably about six to nine months after that and, uh, so all levels, from kids right through to adults, to corporates, to mums, clubs, to whatever it was holiday camps and thoroughly enjoyed it. But what happened was with us in Australia it's very seasonal when it comes to tennis because of the weather, so we're in winter at the moment and you know we're currently going through torrential rain, so tennis courts are flooded. We don't really have indoor courts in Australia, so for that, you know, if you're not on the court and you lose out for two weeks of time in revenue or income. So had to make a really yeah, a pretty serious decision then and there, to actually put tennis aside and really pursue something in terms of a career.

Speaker 3: 7:41

Nice and he leads us very nicely. That's a lovely segue into you and your business. So healthy people. For those listening, what is healthy people all about?

Speaker 2: 7:55

Yeah, so I might. I might take it a step backwards so in terms of my career journey, that started 15 years ago. So obviously, after deciding to quit tennis and from there I sort of I was one of the few Aussies that actually wanted to get into recruitment many sort of go I fell into recruitment, or a mate of mine told me I'd be good at it, so I'll get into it. But I genuinely pursued it. I wanted to get into recruitment and really pushed hard to get into it. I ended up getting an opportunity to interview at a recruitment agency and at the time it was really fierce in terms of getting into recruitment back then in 2010.

Speaker 3: 8:36

And they had no job. There's loads of Brits coming out, even in 2010.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And the agency that I ended up getting a job in, I think 80% were Brits, so I was the odd one out. But I went for an interview. The state manager at the time she was like look, we've got no jobs for someone like you. You've got no experience, you've got no sales background, we just don't have anything. I was like, no, I really need to get into recruiting you. I was like, no, I really need to get into recruiting. You've got a great serve. Yeah, exactly, I can help you with serves.

Speaker 2: 9:08

And what came upon me then? Jordan was like I'm not leaving this room until I get a job. So I basically said to her I was like, look, I'm willing to pay you $50 a day to have me here and sit behind the consultants and just take notes, watch how they recruit, go get their coffees, go to the post office, whatever you need, any errands that you need, I'll be that person. I really want to get into it. And she was like, firstly, we can't take money off you. Secondly, want to get into it that badly. And I was like I do, she goes. Okay, start Monday on an unpaid internship and you'll come in and you'll do what you've just said. You sort of analyze, sit back, take any calls, any messages, go get coffees, any errands that we need, but come in on Monday. I was like great, so left there and I was like okay, this is my way.

Speaker 2: 9:54

In got in on the Monday. By the Thursday the state manager was like can I see you in my office? And I was like crap, what have I done? And she came in and she said look, you've got some early feedback. The team think you're fantastic. You've picked things up really quickly. You took a few messages on the phone and you handled it really well. How would you like to to take a para consultant role here, which is essentially a resourcer role, and you'd be on a contract, you'd be on a salary as well, and that would start next Monday right through to the end of the year, and that was at the time like February, march.

Speaker 2: 10:32

So I had a good nine months as a recruitment resourcer and then I got to the end of that where, unfortunately, there was a freeze within the agency where they weren't able to take on permanent staff, so I had to sort of part ways there.

Speaker 2: 10:48

And then I got my first 360 recruitment role at Randstad and I did early childhood there early childhood recruitment, which is more nursery for you guys in the UK and schools and yeah, I loved it and I was there for a couple of years, then transitioned to another agency and that's then when I found my calling into healthcare and I've been in healthcare recruitment now for 10 years.

Speaker 2: 11:13

The last six years I've co-founded healthcare agencies and Healthy People's my third startup venture and I got the opportunity early last year to partner with a global talent solutions group called Oxo Group, which is based in the UK. They were formerly known as the MCG Group. Quite a big group they do in excess of about 200 million turnover a year, got 12 different brands across the likes of the UK, europe, singapore, dubai, new Zealand, atlanta and now Australia. So I partnered up with the guys early last year and with the vision to bring out healthcare here in Australia and we did that. In May last year we launched the business, formerly known as MCG Healthcare, but we rebranded this year in March to Healthy People.

Speaker 3: 12:01

And tell us what type of clients you guys typically serve? Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 12:06

Yeah so more traditional healthcare, so anything within allied health. So whether it's physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech, those types of verticals or roles. We also look after a lot within the residential aged care space, so elderly homes, home care and aged care facilities and age care facilities. And then we also do a lot of work in social services. So that's a lot of community service type work and social work, psychology, so mental health clinicians, psychologists, counsellors, those types of roles as well. So they're the more the four sort of verticals to within our business and we do a mixture of temp and perm.

Speaker 3: 12:47

Nice, great and I think a lot, a lot of people. I would really like Great and I think, a lot of people. I would really like to kind of just draw on your experience of recruitment in Australia. We've got a lot of customers in Australia. I know a lot of the people listening to this podcast are going to be very interested in the market and where it's heading. I saw a post of yours, paris, on LinkedIn I think it was probably about a month ago where you were talking about the shift in the playbook that people need to use in recruitment to be successful and how that kind of high volume, low touch approach is gonna cease to exist or cease to work and be replaced. Tell me a little bit about what you see with healthy people. But, more generically speaking, recruitment in Australia. What's your take on recruitment in Australia right now? What's going on?

Speaker 2: 13:41

Yeah, look, I think we're in a really positive time within the industry, within the economy here in Australia. I think I'm talking to a lot of counterparts and people in the UK. You know, week on week and times are pretty tough at the moment in the UK the economy's not the greatest. There's certain sectors that are really doing it tough, whereas Australia we've been quite fortunate. Even when we do have maybe a tougher couple of months within the economy or, you know, sectors still thrive and there's still that opportunity to get work on. So I think it's a really buoyant time as well, in particular, sectors like health care, education, engineering.

Speaker 2: 14:26

You know some of these sectors where the work is there, the demand is there, the supply is not, and Australia has a real demand supply issue, especially when it comes to more specialties like health care and education, where we just don't have enough of the supply. We have a lot of demands but not enough supply. So that's a challenge, but I think overall we're in a pretty good position here in Australia. But I think overall we're in a pretty good position here in Australia and you'll see a lot of international agencies are starting to peep over here in Australia and look at opportunities to set up and offer services here because there is such a good market for that. So, yeah, I think we're in a really good time. We're in a really positive time within the recruitment sector. Don't get me wrong. Obviously, everyone has their own challenges, you know. Certain sectors will have it, but overall, I think it's a pretty positive time that we're in at the moment here in Australia.

Speaker 3: 15:23

And going back to that post about the change in playbooks and what it's going to take to be successful, how are you and the team of healthy people combating that? What? What are you guys doing with your customers that's working well in terms of building partnership, adding value, being consultative?

Speaker 2: 15:42

yeah, yeah, exactly what you just said there, mate being consultative. I think that's the first approach. Rather than being recruiters, we're being consultants or we're being consultative to our approach, and that's really important, especially in an industry like healthcare, where you know a lot of the softer skills that our candidates have, for instance, that go out and work in the fields and you know work with clients are, you know they've got empathy, compassion, care, you know. So these sorts of skills that are a lot softer that you know. It's really important for us as consultants that we we you know we're consultative to that, we understand, we listen, um, and I think the other, the other side to it is that you know we're authentic, we're real, we're ourselves. You know we we're in a people's business at the end of the day and we've got to relate to people and you know we all go through challenges from one time to another in our lives and you know if we can relate to those challenges or just be there to listen and understand. I think that's that's a real advantage and I think, going back to what you were saying about my post last month is, you know, being authentic, being real, but you know people seeing the real side to you, rather than it being transactional and showcasing that you're just here to make a deal and move on to the next person. So for that, you know, we really take our approach really seriously when we deal with candidates and clients as well. When we partner with clients, we're there for the long term. So we want to showcase that we really want to understand what those, what those needs are. And I'll give you an example Today we had a client meeting.

Speaker 2: 17:17

It was scheduled for a half an hour meeting ended up being an hour and a half. So you know that's for us to really understand what the client's needs are. But also where it all started for that client. You know where they've come. What's their challenge has been from a workforce planning perspective the last six to 12 months. What have they got installed the next six to 12 months? What do the teams look like? What do their cultures look like? All of that information is really important, but it also shows that we actually genuinely care, rather than hey, have you got a job on Cool? Give it to us, we'll try and fill it.

Speaker 3: 17:52

It's interesting because obviously our um, we help people with more attainment, right, that's the reason we exist is to kind of move people away from that transactional contingent model and allow them to work in committed partnership and be paid for the work that they do. And I think often people join us and have a misconception that it's basically going to be some big, elaborate, hard self and we're going to teach them how to do that. But actually the foundation of it all is is that diagnostic and that needs analysis, like without truly understanding, is there is there a challenge that a challenge that needs fixing first is there a a problem, because if there's not, if they're working contingently.

Speaker 3: 18:33

They're getting exactly what they want when they need it and they enjoy it. They should keep doing it.

Speaker 1: 18:37

Are you enjoying this so far? Don't miss a single episode. Hit the subscribe button right now so you can be part of the conversation that's shaping the future of recruitment. So we dive really deep into the strategies, the stories and the truth about retained search. So if you want to hear more about it or you know someone else that needs to hear this, then share it with them. Right, let's get back to the good stuff.

Speaker 2: 19:07

Absolutely For sure I agree.

Speaker 3: 19:09

It's that consultative approach that underpins everything right, and you guys, it seems like you're doing a really good job of that. What difference has that made, paris, in terms of the way in which you partner customers, in terms of the solutions that you provide?

Speaker 2: 19:26

what yes?

Speaker 3: 19:27

what doors is that diagnostic open for you?

Speaker 2: 19:30

yeah, many doors made and and just on you know solutions and and offerings. We we've got three service models here at healthy people. So our first one is, of course, contingent, our second one is our retained and our third is our project retained. So we have a service model or an offering that suits any client's needs or budgets that they have or urgencies. And something that we really emphasize on when we do go into a client meeting is essentially it's it's the client's choice of what model they want to go down.

Speaker 2: 20:03

But we also say that dependent on the urgency is dependent on the model that we would advise that you take as well, because that's you know the difference, I think, with really trying to sell something that people don't understand but then, secondly, selling something that makes sense and adds value as well. So I think for that we've come up with three service models. Each and every of those service models are quite different in what resources and tools we offer, depending on the service model. But that's opened a lot of doors for us, especially the retained and project retained. We find that clients that will have a lot of urgency around some of the roles needing to be filled immediately, some challenging areas or locations here in Australia that they've struggled with over a short period or a long period of time, so really showcasing a different approach which many of our clients that do choose our retained or project retained have traditionally gone with the contingent model.

Speaker 3: 21:10

And it's great that you say that, though, as well, because one of the biggest misconceptions I hear, not just with Australian recruiters but kind of globally, is people thinking that you sell retained when it's senior yeah Right.

Speaker 1: 21:23

I mean that's it.

Speaker 3: 21:24

If it's senior, we sell retained and if it's not senior, we work it contingently. What I've come to find over the years of doing this is retained is just, it's just a solution to a problem. But if it's, if it's a straightforward hire, contingent can work really, really well. But when it's more challenging and the team needs to provide more resource and more rigor and go further, it's really difficult to justify that commercially when we might not get paid for it so all it does is allow us to provide the level of service needed.

Speaker 3: 21:55

But some of the easiest roles are filled the senior roles. But it can be difficult, as you say right because it's in a really tough, tough location, or the company's got a really bad record in the market, or the salary doesn't seem right, or loads of reasons right.

Speaker 2: 22:09

Exactly, exactly, right. So you know for that, we offer a variety of options to clients and we talk through that. We talk through each option and it's a really important something to note as well for the listeners is you know, with Retain and Project Retain, it's an education piece. We need to be educating our clients as to what retained and project retained is all about, and I think there is a misconception out there and I get it from clients from time to time where they say, oh okay, so if we take the retained model, you guarantee we're going to find, you're going to find us somebody. Now we can never guarantee, whether it's contingent retained, project retained, whatever finding all right, we're dealing with the human mind.

Speaker 2: 22:52

You know their mind shift, the changes, certain certain. You know things change, the market might change, something might happen. So you can never guarantee but what we say there is, you know, with retained and project retained, the resources and tools we invest into that, with that investment that they pay up front, is going to allow us to find that person sooner than perhaps a contingent model.

Speaker 3: 23:15

Yeah, and actually what it allows them to do is make informed decisions, irrespective of what we find. Actually, if the person doesn't exist, they don't exist. But the challenge on a contingent model is often the customer has no idea, like we're not seeing CVs but we don't actually know why. We don't know if they exist or they don't. Are they interested or are they not? On a retained basis, it allows us to deliver in a way that removes uncertainty and also there's commitment from both parties, right.

Speaker 2: 23:45

So you'll know this and listeners out there may have come across this where you take a contingent role on with a client and all of a sudden it's crickets. You get no emails, no phone calls, there's just no communication for weeks on end. And then you get to three, four weeks down the track, finally get a hold of the client and the client says oh, we've internally hired Tommy, he's going to take that role, he starts on Monday. Thanks, but no thanks. So now all of a sudden, you've done such a great job.

Speaker 3: 24:17

Next time we recruit we'll make sure we call you again.

Speaker 2: 24:20

Yeah, exactly, so, yeah, so I think, going back to it, it's an education piece, you know, and I think for us, especially when we're on client meetings or, you know, meeting with clients for the first time, it's very much educating them on the differences of retain, that that model that we have is just more for bulk recruitment needs. So whether an organization will have five to ten to fifteen types of roles that they need filling, then we put them on a project retention delivery process there is.

Speaker 3: 24:58

It provides the same rigor, the same structure. There's probably just some economies of scale in terms of how you package it commercially.

Speaker 2: 25:05

Yeah, definitely, definitely so. The commercial side of it is quite is a little bit different. Our retained is of a percentage project retain is of a flat fee, and that's a tiered scale, um, and then in terms of the, the offerings, or the, the resources, there's two or three that that you would get on the project retain, that you don't get on the retain, but everything else is the same and if we go away from the benefits to as well as the customer and look at you as a business owner now paris, you've obviously got it sounds like a good revenue split between that transactional contingent, the store fund that committed partnerships for clients.

Speaker 3: 25:44

What difference does it make to the business having that retained element or part of the revenue committed?

Speaker 2: 25:51

yeah, well, definitely, firstly, guaranteed revenue coming into the business, um, we're able to better forecast, you know, in in terms of months ahead and quarters ahead as well. Um, it definitely allows consultants to feel a lot more committed to their desk as well, and then, obviously, building that momentum and traction and relationship with their clients as well. So, yeah, from a revenue perspective, definitely it's. It's a lot easier to to forecast when you know that. You know we've got retained searches coming in or you know commencing that following month or that following quarter. We've just finished a quarter here in Australia, quarter two. So April, may, june for us, and we were able to already in June, forecast two retained searches that commenced this week actually. So, yeah, I think from that side it's a lot easier rather than solely you know solely having contingent work on your desk and hoping that it is going to land in that month or that quarter. You know makes a difference as well.

Speaker 3: 26:57

We had, I don't know, do you know Rod Hawth? Yes, he's in Perth, yep. So we had Rod on the podcast probably six or eight months ago and you know he was talking about the long-term value that you're building in a business as well. For any owners leaders listening to this, that kind of exit strategy at some point is very difficult to value. A fully contingent permanent recruitment.

Speaker 2: 27:22

It is, it is, it's. And you know there's an old saying in recruitment you're only as good as your last month in terms of billings. And I think that's heavily drawn towards contingent. Because if it's, you know, if you look at retained project, retained well, you can start to really structure and understand what that desk is worth as well.

Speaker 3: 27:46

But it's not easy, right, and you guys are healthy. Healthy people are in a place that I'm sure a lot of our listeners aspire to be in terms of really clear definition between the products, achieving it consistently. I know that won't have been plain sailing. What, what challenges have you faced along the way getting to this stage?

Speaker 2: 28:08

yeah look, I, I, you know, don't get me wrong, I, I didn't. I was introduced to retain probably, I'd say probably seven, eight years ago now. Uh, I heard of another recruiter in the industry, um, selling retained, and at the time I remember, um they were, they were selling it in three stages as well, you know. So the percentage or a portion up front, a portion at at offer stage and then a portion when they started, and I didn't really understand it at first, the value in it and why they were doing it. But I did a bit of research, looked into it and I just started. I started on my own and I started pitching it and I started.

Speaker 2: 28:44

You know, I learned, learned the hard, and I started pitching it and I started. You know I learned the hard way. There was many mistakes, there was many conversations I had that didn't make sense to the client and therefore, you know there was a lot of no's. But over the years I kept at it, I kept consistently at it and I was persistent with with, obviously you know delivering that service and and it paid off in the end. So the last five years I've successfully sold retained and project retained as little as a $4,000 placement right through to $160,000 worth of retained. So that just varies over the years in terms of different placements and different projects.

Speaker 2: 29:26

But it can be challenging at the start and especially if you're not used to it or you've not been educated or shown how to sell retained or project retained. It can be quite daunting. And some of the challenges we had here at Healthy People was when we were hiring consultants to join us. They were coming from a very contingent background and trying to shift that mentality and mindset to say, well, we do things a little bit differently here and our offerings are a little bit unique in a sense. But hear me out and it'll definitely pay off in the long run. And now we've got this particular consultant. All he wants to do is retain and project retain. He doesn't want to go back to contingent but to his credit he's got quite a good balance of both contingent and retain.

Speaker 3: 30:15

It's amazing, isn't it, how people's mindsets shift when they see something as possible.

Speaker 1: 30:22

Right, it's like actually.

Speaker 3: 30:23

I quite like contingent until I realized actually customers will commit and work in partnership with me and now it makes no sense anymore to work contingently, right?

Speaker 1: 30:31

So that's really good.

Speaker 3: 30:32

What's something now? Looking back, Paris, you wish you'd known earlier.

Speaker 2: 30:38

Probably just the value of being able to commit to giving it your all to a client in terms of filling a role and I think you know so often we can fall in that trap on a contingent-only desk is continuing to take more and more and more work on and then all of a sudden you're drowning in you know 20, 30, 40 roles and not really focusing on the value or the quality of your delivery in terms of filling those roles, because you know I'm a big believer not to have too much on your desk, otherwise it's too messy. So for me I sort of really talk through with my guys. You know eight to ten roles at any given time on your desk is more than enough for one person, that's interesting right.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Yeah, yeah. So you know, it's something that you know. If I had my time again, I definitely would have started to do a lot. You know retained recruitment a lot earlier, just because recruiters and don't get me wrong, it's not a podcast to sledge clients, but recruiters will do it at times as well is they'll ghost the client or the client will ghost that recruiter. So it's interesting when you know an investment's paid up front, that the commitment you get and the communication you get is almost every day. Where are we at with this search? Where are we at? We started this last week. Have we got any candidates through?

Speaker 3: 32:13

And it's quite nice because then you really enter in a partnership now where you can communicate frequently and get to know each other One of our mastery members and so we run a mastery program for more experienced, typically the business owners that are at least like 70% or 80% retained, and one of them puts it really nicely. He says that when I'm working with retained me and the customer become slaves to the problem. Yeah, yeah, it's not a me problem, it's not a them problem, it's an us problem, and both of us. Every action we take is towards fixing that problem and solving it.

Speaker 2: 32:47

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 3: 32:48

I like that. It's a totally different experience If you were to speak to well, we probably are speaking to right now recruiters, business owners in Australia or any market, I suppose, in terms of geography who are right at the beginning of that journey to retain. What advice would you?

Speaker 2: 33:11

give someone? Yeah, good question. I think definitely. Firstly, uh, understand your usps as an agency or as a as a recruiter. So get that down, pack first what's your usps?

Speaker 2: 33:21

If you're in a, in a in a, if you're a specialty recruiter that specializes within a certain vertical or sector, you know a USP might be that you might have lived experience in that sector. You might, you know, really understand that you may have worked in that sector before so you can relate to those clients a little bit better. So you know that's an example but really understanding your USPs and then understanding what your agency or what you as a recruiter can offer your clients, more than finding that person. So, whether or not you, you know, as an agency or as a recruiter, you have really good tech tools that you can use, whether you've got really good marketing and branding that you can support clients with. So there's different.

Speaker 2: 34:07

You know parts to it as well. But I think definitely get that on paper first and then start to ease into that and start to I wouldn't say now, all of a sudden, tomorrow pick up the phones to 50 people and start selling retained only, but start to bring it into your conversations with clients and maybe I would probably say start with a client that you've worked with quite a lot, because you've produced and shown and delivered on what the deliverables are of finding candidates. So you've got that trust from them and now it's about looking at how can you find a more cost-effective solution to some of their future problems.

Speaker 3: 34:46

Yeah, and delivery is important too as well. Right, the amount of people we have come and join us that have just winged the retained pitch for the client. The customer's gone, yeah, okay, and then they've gone. Oh shit, how do I deliver it now?

Speaker 2: 35:02

Yeah, and I think. But I think, mate, to be honest with you, you know and I've worked with many consultants over the years on this is knowing your worth is really important when you take on retained right. So the end of the day, it shouldn't be daunting. There's no, there's no false promises and, like I said to you earlier, we can never guarantee a client, whether it is contingent or retained, that we are going to find that perfect person for them, because things happen right. But I think what we need to to say to the client is you know, we're committed now and you're committed to us by this, um, so it shouldn't be daunting. It should be same as when you are selling contingent. I think the only difference is is because the investments up front, consultants sometimes, you know, can revert into their shell and sort of think uh-oh, what happens if I don't make this placement for them? They're gonna, you know, they're not going to use us again or they're going to want refund or things like that.

Speaker 3: 36:01

So I think it's just, it's the mindset going into, it's the mentality I still remember the first ever session I did with louise because I was I was one of the first people to do this training with lou. I was just a wet behind the ear contingent recruiter. And I remember the first session Lou did with us. She kind of made us write down on a whiteboard everything we hate about recruitment and everything that stops us filling a position. Yeah Right. And it was like you can imagine counter offers and clients pulling headcount and other agencies filling our jobs and all that stuff. And actually what Lou said at the end of it is almost all of that goes away If you protect, if you remove other agencies and you work in partnership with the client and you get quick CV feedback.

Speaker 3: 36:48

You get quick feedback on interviews and they have weekly steering calls. How often is it you actually wouldn't fill a position?

Speaker 2: 36:56

Yeah, and it's like oh yeah, of course I had one, If I had all of that of course I'd fill it.

Speaker 3: 36:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just for me it seemed like a pipe dream at the time. I was never going to get all of that. And then you realise there is a way.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Yeah Well, it's similar. To put it this way, right, recruiters coming into the industry for the first time, it's daunting to pick up a phone in front of everybody in their first couple of weeks. They're having to make bd calls. They're having to, you know, generate candidates, you know. So again, you could say well, what's the difference there? You know, a recruiter coming into a new agency for the first time or coming into recruitment for the first time, they've got the same challenges where they feel like it's, you know, it's quite daunting, or they're not confident or they're not comfortable as yet. And it goes the same with selling retains. Of course you're not going to be comfortable or confident in your first couple of tries, but after a while, if you just consist in that and keep chipping away at it.

Speaker 3: 37:53

Yeah yeah, exactly, absolutely Good, really really good. Tell us what's next for you. All right, so what's next for healthy people?

Speaker 2: 38:03

Yeah, so we'll. We'll continue to grow. We're in a in a phase now where you know we've just entered year two. You know last month was was, you know we may, we celebrated one year, so we're coming into year two, thank you. Yeah, so we're on this trajectory now of growth, strategic growth, bringing in like-minded individuals that really want to come on this journey with us. It's quite exciting. And then we'll diversify in terms of services and offerings into other sectors within healthcare, so within the acute hospital setting, in terms of services and offerings into other sectors within healthcare, so within the acute hospital setting, within also the GP medical setting as well so there's a few there as well with our service offerings will come in terms of what we can offer from a recruitment perspective that is not just contingent, retained project, retained um, but potentially um, some rpo, msp work as well.

Speaker 3: 39:01

Very exciting, very exciting. So if I'm I'm a recruiter in australia, thinking I want a bit of that, um, how can people reach you paris? Where can they find you?

Speaker 2: 39:13

uh. First off, linkedin, um. I've got a pretty unique name, so there's not many Paris's that are in recruitment in Australia. I think there's about two or three others, um, so you'll definitely find me on LinkedIn, um. Or check out our website, wwwhealthypeoplecomau. That'll showcase sort of our sort of style and the brand and what we're about, um and what we do, uh. Or thirdly, uh. You can reach out to us as well, um, at uh, yeah, at our email address, which is hello at healthypeoplecomau as well and for anyone listening, healthy is h-e-a-l-t-h-i-i right correct?

Speaker 2: 39:56

yes, thank you for that. I should have made that clear that. Uh, yeah, so there's a there's a reason behind that as well. The two eyes are the people coming together. So obviously, within health care, we know, you know you have a person that comes to help somebody else, um to to make them feel better. So, yeah, there's, there's a bit of a story behind the brand, but yeah, it is with two eyes.

Speaker 3: 40:17

Awesome Paris. It's been an absolute pleasure. I know how busy you are. So thank you so much for spending some time with us. I know it's been really insightful and I know our listeners will be very appreciative too. Thank you. Last question when I'm in Australia in October, are we playing tennis, and do you want forehand or backhand side when we have a game of doubles?

Speaker 2: 40:42

Forehand. I'm a lefty. I'm a lefty.

Speaker 3: 40:44

I know, are you a lefty, Two lefties, Paris. They're going to hate us. They're going to hate us.

Speaker 2: 40:51

Definitely, mate, I'll book a court and yeah let's get something booked in.

Speaker 3: 40:56

Thank you again so much. Anyone that wants to reach out to Paris, please do. If I was a recruiter in Sydney, paris, I would work for you guys. Thank you, mate. I appreciate that, absolute pleasure. Thank you, paris Cheers, mate. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 41:09

Well, that's another episode of Retrain Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retrained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi. We don't bite unless you're on linkedin. And come and say hi, we don't bite unless you're a shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 41:39

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.