Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Hello everyone, welcome to the Retrained Search show. Good morning, hello everyone. Welcome to the Retain Search show. We're not doing it again today. Morning, gemma, afternoon Right, it's morning. Yeah, it's morning. It's morning with you. We're just admiring Jordan's fresh new look, aren't we?

Speaker 2: 0:40

Sorry, my light's just started flashing. There we go. I think it's staying on now. Yeah, so I've been going to this new barber's opposite Gia's new nursery and the first time I went was interesting. The haircut was okay, but he gave me like my beard he did like a bike strap instead of like I look like a 2002 Craig David is the way I'd describe it Nice, so that wasn't great. And then the second time I went, the beard was okay, but the haircut was pretty bad.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Yeah, but.

Speaker 2: 1:13

Sorry, it's the same as hair in normal talk. And then the third time I went I got a good haircut and a good beard and it was the guy that I think owned it. But I was saying every time I go it's like different people in there and they and it was the guy that I think owns it. But I was saying every time I go it's like different people in there and they're all of foreign descent. Right, and it was funny because last time I went in I saw the owner was in again. So I was like this was last week. I was like I'm gonna get in get my hair cut now, while the good guy's there and the guy that was in the chair next to me.

Speaker 2: 1:36

It's like they're giving like a list of standard questions to ask people because english isn't great. So's like are you working today? Do you have family? It's like just every barber asks the same questions. This guy says back to this guy who I've never seen before. He says how long have you been here? And he means like the shop, how long has the shop been here? And the guy says, oh, three days. The guy says the shop has been here three days. He's like no, no, no me. For the guy who says the shop is here for three days, he's like no, no, no me. And he's like, oh, you've only worked here three days. And he's like no, no, I've only been in the UK for three days. It's like seems like every person has to go through Liverpool or Penceth Barbershop in Warrington, yeah, Didn't that guy like stop a stabbing outside that shop?

Speaker 1: 2:26

Didn't he go out with his barber's cape on and like save someone, did he? He did, he did. Did he miss it in the news? No, yeah, he went out of like it was penkith or great sankey barber and he was like an off-duty police officer and he basically saved. He almost died himself in the process, but he saved a guy from being stabbed with his barber's knife. Have a look.

Speaker 2: 2:52

There you go, I'm going to give you it, there you go. Yeah, yeah, so you can be the next hero, george.

Speaker 1: 2:57

Yeah, maybe, maybe. That's your plan, that's your plan.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Headline would be man with bike strap beard saves, or something like that.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yeah, the play. It was a nice play on Worsley because he was wearing a cape. But he was wearing a barbara cape, yeah it was nice Hero. Yeah, exactly yeah, hero barbara cape. Anyway, welcome Jem. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1: 3:20

You know our antics by now. We've been working together, known each other long enough For you. You know our antics by now. We've been working together, known each other long enough for you not to mind me and george messing about. Um, I am delighted to introduce you all to jemma, who we know well and you guys don't, and we'd love jemma to set to share her story because it's very inspiring and also very interesting, and it continues because we're still in next chapter and then next chapter. So, um, will you be kind enough to introduce yourself, gemma, to our lovely audience and tell us and them a little bit about you and your business absolutely so.

Speaker 3: 4:00

I'm Gemma Beasley. I run my own business called Hudson Cooper Search. It's just me and my VA, so, boutique. I'm based in the US, between New York City and the Carolinas. I spend time in both and I'm focused in construction management. So I work with construction companies, real estate developers, owners, rep firms. Um, yeah, and like you said, it's it's a journey, it's a process. I've been working with you guys since the start of 2022.

Speaker 1: 4:38

Yeah, I think and what was going on for you then. What were you doing and not doing, and what was going on when we met?

Speaker 3: 4:48

Yeah, so I had just left Hayes. I'd been with Hayes for well since 2011 altogether, first three and a half years in London and then transferred over here with them in 2014. So I'd literally just left and was getting everything set up. Um, and I think I've been following you on LinkedIn for a while. You know, listen to coming some of the webinars and, um, loved it, loved everything you were saying. So, yeah, I knew when I left I was gonna get more involved and do the course and um, and were you working?

Speaker 1: 5:31

what kind of work were you doing at Hayes? Where had you got to with that?

Speaker 3: 5:37

so it was contingent for the most part. Um, all permanent, although I started off on a temp desk. But I've been doing. I've been doing the same type of uh positions that I, that I do now, but 90% on a contingent basis, which was fine. You know, I was successful at it and it and it worked.

Speaker 3: 5:57

And, um, I just knew when I went out on my own I had to do something different. Um, I had to be better. Well, I just, I knew I just had to up my game. You know, I had to be as good as I could possibly be. Um, because you can't afford not to be. Yeah, you know, when you're running your own business, it's you know you've got to. You've got to be able to win the right type of work, you've got to be able to deliver on it, you've got to work with the right type of clients. You just can't afford. You know, I just couldn't do the same thing in the same way that I was doing before, because I'm not getting paid a base salary anymore. Right, I'm not, I'm responsible for, for everything. So, yeah, I just I just knew I had to be better and keep getting better and so what?

Speaker 1: 6:48

what was it about retained that you wanted?

Speaker 3: 6:54

so, aside from obviously having forecastable revenue and predictable income, which is obviously a big part of it, I just I wanted to work. I wanted to deepen the relationships that I already had with clients and have more um and just work in a better way with new clients as well. So having that confidence to know when a retained solution is right was a big thing for me. Um, knowing that you can deliver it, knowing how to deliver it in the right way.

Speaker 2: 7:31

So just just to strengthen those relationships to provide a better service, um, that was the main driver really, aside from the, the revenue point of view, I always think the mindset's interesting when you're starting a new business, because I speak to some people that are going out on their own and they say well, I'm going to start working contingently right to get some quick fees in.

Speaker 2: 7:55

I'm like I'm thinking so you're going to take two or three weeks to get a job on and then you're going to go away and work it for like four to six weeks and you might fill it, you might not, but even if you do fill it, then you're going to have to wait for, let's say, a month Now it depends where in the world you are. And then let's say they've got 30 day payment terms. You're probably not going to see any money for like four months.

Speaker 3: 8:16

Well, yeah, it's really hard because you need the revenue right, Especially when you're just getting started. Revenue right, especially when you're just getting started, like, having to walk away from stuff, is really difficult. You know, it's still it's difficult for me now, um, but you and, like you said, it's the mindset you've got, that's the bit that you've got to change um, and working with you guys helped me and he's helping me do that, and you know, like it doesn't happen overnight. It's it's it's difficult, but what?

Speaker 1: 8:49

what was it like then? Because it's been where. Well, let's, let's say where are you up to kind of now with it? How do you work with your clients now?

Speaker 3: 8:58

we're a few years down the line, yeah, so um, I'm not 100% retained, um, and the reason for that is and again it's it's. I've got the understanding and the confidence now to know when it's the right solution to offer, and the reality is it's just not the right solution in everything that.

Speaker 2: 9:21

I do so that's fine.

Speaker 3: 9:23

I'm okay with that um, but now I know when it is and when it isn't, and you know when it's appropriate. So, yeah, probably around the 50% mark. Um. I've also, thanks to you guys, now got an understanding of adding value in other ways. So comp and bending studies and, you know, talent mapping and insights. You know I was doing a little bit of that before, but on a you know, a corporate level, so that's been a whole eye-opener. So that's another way that I can add value to clients that I wasn't doing before and I love that that type of work as well. So that's been really good. Um, yeah, so, um, it will probably stay the same, I think, maybe I don't.

Speaker 1: 10:11

I don't know, I'll have to see, but that's kind of where I am at the moment and what for you like in that journey of going from you know, not not doing any work on a retained basis to now half the work that you do being retained, what have been some of the kind of turning, you know, key moments or or turning points for you? Are there any moments in there there of realization or significant change that you can share with us?

Speaker 3: 10:49

Yeah, it's just so much more enjoyable for everybody, for everybody, you know, not just me, but for the client and the candidates. I think they just have a much better experience too, you know, because you've got more control over the process, because the client is, you know, committed, um, because you have all of the information that you need right at the beginning and you've got a process and you've got a timeline and everybody knows what you're going to be doing, when you're going to be doing it, the candidates included. When you can say that, all up front, it's just more enjoyable, it's just it's, it's less stressful, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's a big part of it um, how?

Speaker 1: 11:38

because you, the other kind of fundamental change you've made, I mean, okay, in a larger period of time, but you've moved from a UK market to a US market. Yeah, can you tell us a bit about that for you? What, how was that journey for you? Was it as you expected?

Speaker 3: 11:56

no, um, I don't think I really knew what, what to expect. You know because I'd come from. You know three and a half years doing temp with local, you know London councils, which was great, I loved it and I'd done a little bit of perm and actually the perm that I did do was retained, actually, um and then coming to.

Speaker 3: 12:19

So, coming from a big corporate environment with Hayes in London to then move into the US was completely different. You know, we were there was only three or four of us doing CMP. It was really new. No one knew who we were. You know, we didn't have a brand, we didn't no one knew the Hayes name at all. So we had to, we had to really really focus on business development, um, which I really struggled with.

Speaker 3: 12:48

The first six months, like I had a real crisis of confidence and thought I don't know what I'm doing because I really hadn't done proper BD. I thought I had but I hadn't. Um, and then after sort of six months, you know, with a lot of support and help, it just kind of clicked and went from there. So, um, I think I mean I don't know I haven't worked in the UK for all that time but it's much more relationship driven here than in the UK. In my experience and from what other people tell me, you know, it seems to be a lot more transactional back in the UK. So you've got to have good BD skills, you've got to be able to build and develop relationships and if you do, they last for a long time. You know I'm working with clients that I've known for nearly 10 years now, so that's great. But yeah, it was. I didn't know what to expect, but I've loved it. I've loved every minute of it, every minute of it, would you?

Speaker 1: 13:42

go back to work in the UK market now absolutely not no no interest.

Speaker 3: 13:50

No, I mean, I don't know the market. I haven't, I haven't been in it. So but no, it hasn't changed but it's only got harder no. Yes, I hear.

Speaker 1: 14:02

And I think there's a lot of people I talk to British recruiters who hear of people moving to the US or simply working the US market from the UK and think that it's so new and it's not possible and it's going to be super different or they're not going to be, you know, warmed to or how. What advice would you give them? Or what's been your experience of being a Brit in an American market?

Speaker 3: 14:35

Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all, in New York at least, you know, no one cares if you've got a British accent. They really don't. It's a big multicultural city, so that I think some people think that's going to help. It doesn't. People don't care Because it's relationship driven. I think I think you have to kind of go above and beyond. I think you know and I've seen over the last few years and what clients and candidates tell me, that they're getting bombarded with resumes and phone calls from people outside the us and it's really obvious when people don't have an understanding of the market, even from a geographical point of view. You know, calling people about a job that's 100 miles away or not knowing how long it takes to get from point a to point b you know things like that will knock you back really quickly.

Speaker 3: 15:34

So I think you've I think you've got to be prepared to spend time here personally. Um, it can happen. You just you've got to really really try and understand this market and and it's it might take longer to build those relationships, but once you've got them, it's great. You know they'll people will stick with you yeah, it's not like it used to be.

Speaker 1: 15:59

I don't think is it where? Uh, it was a lot easier. I felt you, you know you could. Um, I don't know whether it was less saturated or there was less British recruiters trying to muscle in on the action and now, yeah, there's loads yeah, yeah, you know, and since since covid, obviously that's changed a lot of things.

Speaker 3: 16:25

You know, there's a lot more, I think. I think that's happened anyway, you know, and and with ai and automation and everything else, you know, candidates are getting bombarded more and more. So I mean, I'm hearing that all the time, yeah, and even to the point where I never felt like I had to say this. But now I'm really conscious of reminding people or telling people no, I am actually here, like don't, don't let the accent fool you. Yeah, because people ask now. So they're like oh, are you here or are you in the UK?

Speaker 2: 17:05

it's kind of like if you're if you're not here, I'm not interested yeah, that's those conversations are happening more.

Speaker 3: 17:11

Or you can see the seeing high fees, high salaries and no notice periods and thinking I'll have a bit of that yeah, they think the streets are paved with gold, um, and obviously there's there's upsides and benefits to that, but that doesn't the same. You know spray and pray approach. That might work in a transactional market like the uk. You might get some quick wins here and you probably did over the last few years when the market was really good, um but that's not a long-term solution. If you're serious about building a reputation and a brand in the us, that's not going to work.

Speaker 2: 17:53

I don't think yeah, and actually if you look at a lot of I mean some of our customers, you look at a lot of I mean some of our customers. If you look at a lot of the bigger recruitment firms that have made a success of it in the US. They've got offices now in Houston and New York. They've got people on the ground.

Speaker 1: 18:09

Yeah, and how do you think because it's always interesting, I think the speed at which different regions or countries adopt tactics or methodologies and you know how does the US market feel for you in terms of their receptiveness to look for a partnership approach, a retained approach how well does that go down?

Speaker 3: 18:43

yeah, I well, going back to what we've just been talking about, that I think that's actually helping, you know I, because I think I think clients are getting pissed off with and I know they are, you know, having to deal with endless numbers of recruiters, bombarding them with stuff, giving them a, you know, a sub um, subpar experience on this podcast yeah say that again, I'll swear on this podcast. Okay, I'm sure I will by the end of it.

Speaker 3: 19:14

Um yeah you know, I think they're getting fed up with it, but they're telling me that they are. So it's actually when you are then putting in front of them a solution that is more partnership driven and, you know, takes away all of that noise and takes that time, you know, gives that time back to them, uh, they are more receptive to it, you know I talked to a client the other day.

Speaker 3: 19:39

He said he at the moment, because he's he's hiring for multiple roles, 50 of his time he's spent dealing with all these recruiters that are sending him stuff wow, 50, that's terrific, isn't it yeah yeah, you know so and that's and, and that's why we're having a conversation about taking that out, taking that off of his you know his agenda and just working with me and it's a partnership and and he just, you know, just works with me.

Speaker 1: 20:07

So it's actually helping good, it's actually helping um, yeah that's good though carry on with your spray and pray, because it's helping us when you're doing it exactly exactly.

Speaker 2: 20:18

Yeah, okay, cool um and tell us a bit, you know you've?

Speaker 1: 20:19

you've talked about a situation there. It's helping us win. We're doing it Exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay, cool, and tell us a bit. You know you've talked about a situation there where you've been able to solve, or will be able to solve, a problem with a retained solution. Can you tell us about other instances where that has happened for you over the last few years?

Speaker 3: 20:38

Yeah, the last few years, yeah, um. So there's an example, uh, that I'm working through at the moment, actually, which is a role that's been open for a while um, a couple of years really and you know there's been. They've had some interviews. They've kind of churned through a bit of a talent pool, already not convinced it's the right fit. Keep going, keep going. It might be that they've already met someone who could have been the right fit, but whatever's been happening so far just isn't, it's just not, it's just not working.

Speaker 3: 21:21

And we've had a conversation about, right, let's put a proper search process in place. Let's map out the market, let's really drill down into what it is that you're looking for, what you're willing to flex on. Um, there's a little bit of a limited understanding, I think, maybe, of the market, so I think that's going to be helpful for them. Um, so, hopefully that's going to start soon, yeah, but yeah, there's there's a few cases of that where the contingent model just hasn't worked and we're just churning through people over and over again or having to replace people multiple times. That's come up a few times recently.

Speaker 3: 22:00

Um, and again, it's the it's clients who are spending way more time than they should dealing with multiple different recruiters and just not just not getting the level of quality basically, me and lou talk about that a lot.

Speaker 2: 22:18

Sometimes at the end of a search, it isn't that you actually find somebody that that you haven't found previously. Sometimes it's the insight, the transparency of the search. Their understanding of the market means they feel comfortable hiring somebody that there's no way they would have hired on a contingent basis yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 22:39

And, and you know the information that you can gather and then present around salary expectations or benefits and bonuses and motivations. You know that which you you just don't necessarily get that from contingent searches. Well, we know, we know you don't. Um, that information is so helpful to clients too, and so my understanding of being able to collect that and then presenting it in a meaningful way now is is is really helpful yeah yeah, you did a piece on helping your industry to understand what was going on from a compensation perspective.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Can you? Tell us a little bit about that. That's so new for a lot of the people, I'm sure. Uh well, as it was for me and for you.

Speaker 3: 23:27

You know, before we we learned it, but tell us a little bit about how that's helpful yeah, so, um, not so much last year because that was a little bit challenging, but the sort of three years post covid in new york is. You know, I'll just talk about new york for now but, um, there was just a feeding frenzy for want of a better analogy um, that it was so fierce. The competition for talent, uh, there's crazy salaries being thrown out and offers being made, you know, way above what they were before. So I'd done some research with some clients on how they'd approach that, what they'd done internally if they'd had to up salaries across the board, if they'd had to pay sign-on bonuses, anything that they'd had to do to handle those challenges, and then put it into a report and then presented it back to those clients and then other clients offered that information to them and it went down really, really well. You know it was really helpful to everyone who took part in it and I learned stuff.

Speaker 3: 24:36

You know that I didn't know that some of my, some of my clients were doing and I learned stuff. You know that I didn't know that some of my, some of my clients were doing. I didn't know they were doing it. Um, you know, because I'd asked those questions and and that that type of research. Um, I just have got more confidence now in in going out and doing it, you know, and taking different ideas from other people that I've met through, retrained, and what they, what they've been doing and what's worked for them, you know, and how I can now put that into my perspective and what's going to work in my market. So, yeah, I'm planning. I'm just thinking about the next one that I'm going to do.

Speaker 2: 25:14

I need to do that. What are you going to do?

Speaker 3: 25:18

I'm not sure yet. I've got a few ideas. Do that Q2. I've got a few ideas. I'm not sure yet. I've got a few ideas. I'll probably bend your ear about that at some point. Um, yeah, can't do it in Q1, it's gonna have to be Q2.

Speaker 1: 25:29

So but yeah, and I really I love doing that type of work too, so yeah, it's nice, it's like a paid BD or even just a more interesting business development exercise, because just gathering the data in itself is like, yeah, joy to just reach out to people and ask some nice questions instead of trying to, you know, get business. But it has the same effect, yeah definitely.

Speaker 3: 25:52

Yeah, this, you know it's you're helping them and they're helping you and yeah, it's great and what um in.

Speaker 1: 26:02

In the sort of journey then that you've been on of it all really, of the you know, the move into the american market and this shift to retained um are there things that you wish you'd known earlier on in the journey that you know now?

Speaker 3: 26:22

I don't think so no.

Speaker 2: 26:24

I don't think so because I would.

Speaker 3: 26:27

I wouldn't change any of it. Yeah, do you know? I mean I like, I've loved. I loved my time with Hayes. I've loved my 10 years here. I've loved the path so far. Yeah, so I don't think I would. I would change it. I'm glad I did your course at the start of my journey running my own business. Definitely that was the right thing to do, um, you know, and part it's not. It hasn't just been about doing the course. You know I've learned so much from the community on how to run a business. Yeah, you know, that's been absolute, you know, worth its weight in gold. Um, and I didn't, I didn't need to know any of that before, so I've learned it at the right time, if that makes sense yeah, yeah, perfect.

Speaker 1: 27:20

And what's next for you? Then? What's next for you? And Hudson Cooper search more of the same.

Speaker 3: 27:28

Really, I'm not. You know I'm not um, I'm not planning on hiring loads of people and then, you know, scaling and exiting that's not what I'm I'm about. You know I want it to be small and boutique and I just want to do a. You know I want it to be small and boutique and I just want to do a really good job. I want to keep getting better and just build a life that works for me. Really, you know I'm not trying to take over the world, I just want to be happy with what I'm doing and do a good job and keep going.

Speaker 3: 27:59

Have nice holidays, have nice things yes, I need to stop going on holiday, to be fair. No, you don't need to stop, I do I read your mind.

Speaker 2: 28:08

What is do you class the mastermind? Events like next month in LA is that holiday or is that work?

Speaker 3: 28:15

so I turn it. I turn it into a holiday. It's work, it's work, but I mean me and a couple of the guys are going. Tara and Corey are going to Palm Springs after three days, so it is a holiday. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going skiing in Norway this weekend.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Amazing. Yeah, I love that when is this going to go?

Speaker 3: 28:43

out in the next 24 hours. Is it no, no, no, okay, good yeah, because half my family don't know I'm going. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 28:52

It's a surprise, nice, nice, there's good skiing in New York as well, isn't there? The first time I was in Vermont and Stowe, which I think is not too far from New York.

Speaker 3: 29:04

Yeah, I'm more of an apres ski kind of girl yeah you'd be the first of the day and then go.

Speaker 2: 29:12

I'll sit in this bar and drink all day, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1: 29:18

Yeah, I'd love to do that, but it's just me and Harry and I need to stay with with Harry, so he makes me ski like all day which is great because it means I burn loads of calories and then I can eat loads of nice food and eat and drink loads. So it's good and it's good for my fitness and stuff, but god, it's exhausting. I came back I could hardly move, I was so broken.

Speaker 1: 29:42

And we're going, we're going to Canada, we're going to Banff, in about uh two oh nice yeah, I'm looking forward to that as well but we've got our trip to, uh, miami and LA in a few weeks time and we'll see you there. So tell us before you go. Tell us a little bit about um, what do? Why do you go to these things? Why do you go? Come to the mastermind events. What does it? What does it do for you?

Speaker 3: 30:09

yeah, so, um, I mean, we obviously we have collab calls and one-on-ones and that's that's great and the actual, you know, the school portal everyone is so generous and open and helpful they I mean, I can't believe how helpful everyone is sometimes, but that's great. But when you're actually in a room with everybody, it's just amplified times 50. You know, it's just. It's just great that, like you will, I walk out of each event with notebooks full of notes and inspirations and things. I'm going to go, you know, try and implement. Um, it's just, it just lifts you up, right, it makes you think about things and, um, it's just really inspiring.

Speaker 3: 31:00

You know, you, you meet people that are at different stages in their career, um, that might be running huge teams or huge companies that might have bought, and, you know, exited businesses and now setting up. There's such a variety of people and there's always something to learn and always something you can share with. It's just great. It's just I love them. I love them so much, like it's just yeah, so I I missed the last one in london, but, um, I'm looking forward to la, definitely, yeah, so we, so we um.

Speaker 1: 31:34

And where can people connect with you if they want to find out a bit more about you, what you're doing? Um, people that might want to work with you or uh, or might need your help, how can they connect with you? Uh?

Speaker 3: 31:51

yeah, linkedin's probably the easiest um. Or my email, jemma, at hudsoncoopersearchcom.

Speaker 1: 31:57

Amazing thank you, jemma. Thank you, thank you so much for sharing your story and your journey with us. Um, I wanted um to kind of point out to those of you that are listening how different sometimes it is when you feel you don't want to grow or scale or, you know, build a business, and I think it's easy to feel like that that's what you should be doing, because you look around and so many people doing that and yeah, I mean you say yes, gemma, to that, like did you feel that? Or?

Speaker 3: 32:40

no, um.

Speaker 3: 32:42

No, because that wasn't my plan, but I have felt like that at times.

Speaker 3: 32:46

Definitely, um, you, definitely, but I'm I'm okay with, with where I am and you know where it will be, and that's that's why I think, if you are, if you are going out on your own or you're thinking about it, you've got to have a community, you've got to find a tribe of people, you've got to talk to other business owners, talk to people who have done what you're doing or have thought about it.

Speaker 3: 33:16

You have to have that because the way that you'll have all these doubts, right, you're going to have times when you think I can't do this, what the fuck have I done? Um, I should be getting bigger, I should be doing this, I should be doing that, and having that support group around you, talking to other people that have been down that path before or got different ideas, it's just so helpful. You can't underestimate the importance of that, and that's for me, aside from everything that I've learned from you guys, is that that community has just been so helpful with realizing where you are and where you want to get to and knowing that that's all right. It's all right that you don't want to be a company, it's all right that you don't want to. You know, hire 50 people. I'm fine with that.

Speaker 1: 34:06

You know that's a different journey for somebody else, but um, yeah and and what I one of the things I love and you know wanted to to bring you, bring you on to share was was that?

Speaker 1: 34:18

Exactly because you know there's people that have come into the, into the mastermind group that like, um, you know Nick and Charlotte and um, who else am I thinking of that doesn't want Kelly that came in thinking, oh, I feel like I probably should grow, but I can see in them that they don't really want to, but they kind of want to make sure that it's okay that they don't and that actually just creating a life that that works for them and that they want to live is is enough, like more than enough, and actually, in many cases, those of you that are doing that are getting to that stage much quicker than those that are trying to grow and scale and build a life that they want for themselves.

Speaker 1: 35:00

Eventually, through some sort of yes and and there's, you know there's there's quite a few of you now that are getting like really, really getting comfortable and you're you're such a great role model for that and being okay with focusing on building a life that you want and not taking on the pressure of growth or scaling or creating EBITDA and all that that, yeah, another half of the group is yeah, it's wonderful.

Speaker 1: 35:30

I love it, but that's it your own.

Speaker 3: 35:33

I think the biggest barrier if you are, you know, going to go out on your own and set up a company, the biggest barrier is your own self-doubt. You know it's how you talk to yourself and you know what you think you can and can't achieve. You know you can, you can do whatever you want, but it's it's you get in your. I mean, I do that. You know you get in your own way sometimes. So surrounding yourself with people who are having exactly the same thoughts and questions is so helpful.

Speaker 1: 36:08

It really really is so yeah, and it's not until you know. Someone said to me the day it was ross, actually ross sanderson. He said he was, um, chatting to someone who has now joined the mastermind but was thinking about joining it and, um, for those of you thinking about it, always it's helpful to be put in touch with people that are in it to go. Well, this is what it's really like and this is what you're likely to get from it. Anyway, I'd done that and he said, just chatting to that person explaining what it had done for him, I made him realize how far he'd come in his journey. It was almost like therapy for him just to actually be explaining. Yes, this is where I was and this is how I felt and this is what I was doing. And now I'm here and, god, haven't I done really well and aren't I actually, um, you know, proud of what I've achieved?

Speaker 1: 36:55

And and as people come in and you listen to their questions, and you listen and you think, oh, actually I don't know that. Now I know I can answer that, you know. Yeah, because it kind of helps. It's a bit like mentoring. I was surprised by how fulfilling mentoring is. You go into it thinking I'm going to give this person and give, give, give and they're going to get loads and actually, weirdly, you get more from it than you ever give. Yeah, and it's so hard to describe that unless you actually do it, and but it's like that, isn't it you? You also get by, get from giving definitely yeah, and it's you know.

Speaker 3: 37:29

No one in that group um, no one's got an ego, no one you know doesn't want to help anybody or feels that they shouldn't be sharing. You know it's, it's you've, you know you and you've created that and it's wonderful and it's just. Yeah, I don't know what I would do without it. Actually, I think my business would look very different. So, thank you.

Speaker 2: 37:54

I want to help lou with tennis anymore, because if I keep her up in it she's going to be better than me soon, that's it.

Speaker 1: 38:03

Bloody hell. I'm never going to have the wingspan of an albatross, am I? So I'm never going to be as good as you. I'm never going to be able to touch both of the outside lines of the tennis court without fucking moving. Oh, I can't play tennis or be able to get every single lob, because if Jordan can't get it, it's going out. Let's face it. Yeah, no, you're super good at tennis. I'm never going to be as good as you, but it's very fun trying.

Speaker 3: 38:32

Are you playing tennis in LA? Then that's the plan, is it? Yes?

Speaker 2: 38:36

Gemma, you're honestly, I've done something very silly, gemma. You're honestly, I've done something very silly, gemma, I was spending a few days in Miami and I signed up. A customer to search foundations last year called Jonathan. He's in Miami. I remember at the time he told me he met his business partner playing tennis and I said I play a lot of tennis and we talked about tennis and I thought, oh, challenging to a game of tennis while I'm in Miami. And he accepted the challenge very quickly. No, to the point I was. I thought, oh, challenging to a game of tennis while I'm in Miami. And he accepted the challenge very quickly. No, to the point I was. I thought, oh, oh, that worries me. So I Googled him and he's like, I think he's some like all American college tennis player. Oh, no. So I've very quickly gone. I've got a better idea.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Why don't you get a couple of friends and me and you will play doubles against your friend? Yeah, right, nicely done. Yeah, it sounds fun. Yeah, we're gonna play tennis and you're gonna go for a bar crawl with sarah instead yeah, I think there's several that have opted for the gin and tonics instead of the tennis yeah, yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it can't wait, it will be, it'll be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 39:42

Um, okay, cool, I mean, anybody that's that's looking to um find out a bit more about jemma's journey or would like some help, uh, with whatever you might have thought was interesting on listening today. Then, um, you know, please feel free to reach out, I. I think that's okay with you, gem. Yeah absolutely. And we'll see you. I'll see you before, but we'll see you in Los Angeles. Woohoo, I'll see you then.

Speaker 2: 40:09

Thank you, bye, bye Gem.

Speaker 1: 40:12

Bye. Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retrained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 40:43

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.