Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Did you get Bangkok right last night?

Speaker 2: 0:24

It's just a long way, isn't it? It's just a long way, isn't it? It's just a long way, it really is. It's a really long way. We stopped for some dinner on the way home, grabbed a bite to eat, and then I had to drop Sarah off, so I think what time did we get home?

Speaker 2: 0:37

in the end like 4 to 10, probably something like that, yeah, and then it's just poor old jia. It's the first time as a parent, so like, she's fine, it's only like, even if it's chicken pox, right, whatever it is, it's fine. But nowhere like it just looks nasty. I just look at it, it's just like, oh just you just want to be all for them, don't?

Speaker 2: 0:58

you. I feel so sorry for it. Like you know, when they have, when they're teed in, or like you can't, it's not visual, is it? You can't really see it.

Speaker 1: 1:06

So you know they're under the weather because they're crying and stuff, but this just looks nasty, oh I know, I know so and beck has been coping with it while you've been away no, no, no that that's where we got quite lucky it happened yesterday afternoon, so um for those of you listening to us, uh, welcome to the uh show.

Speaker 1: 1:31

Jordan and I are recovering from a big couple of days. I've actually done like a big five days of work, or six days, because I did the two-day goldman sachs, last residential for the program, the 10,000 small businesses program that I've been doing.

Speaker 1: 1:45

And then I had a day back in work which was rammed and then jumped in the car and and drove down to and battered storms to get to and we did a whole load of leadership um strategy in between me rescuing Claire from the biggest puddle she thought it was going to turn into a river and wash her car away and and then we made it down to London for our mastermind event and it's just been the most incredible few days. We were just saying the group, it's just absolutely fantastic. Now it's been slowly, uh, just developing. Really it's not so much grow, I mean it is growing. I looked at the numbers now. There's like I mean I know some of them are awesome, things like that, but it's 54 in um in a search mastermind group in school now and there was like 35 of us in Richmond for two days just now.

Speaker 1: 2:43

And what I mean, one of the things I've just did my content with Dave Wollstoneham. Those of you that know as well will know that Dave helps us with content at least absolutely brilliant. So if any of you need help on LinkedIn content, he's your guy, although he only works with a certain number of clients again fast. But I was just talking and he was saying like what tell you know, tell me what it was like. And it was like it's like seeing like my children growing up, like not just like Rory and Neil, with Stoics, are going to hit their first million now in retained revenue. Nick Hoadley um, he's doing the same. Lucy Robinson she'll be first quarter next year and she'll hit her million. And all these people have gone from just contingent recruitment. Nothing outstanding, they're not. You know this is all achievable, they're great people, but Dave Plummer as well and us.

Speaker 1: 3:37

They're already there on 1.2.

Speaker 2: 3:40

I was speaking to my wife about this last night when I got home and I was saying, when the Mastermind, when we first launched the mastermind, I felt like there was real disparity between the people in there. And what I mean is there was like there was some really inexperienced public, like people that were winning, retained, but it was very new to them and they were flying, but it was all very new.

Speaker 2: 4:01

And then there was like some wise old owls in there that had been doing it for years and had loads of experience, and what often would happen is you'd have the wise old owls talking and the inexperienced ones just like, oh my god, and now it's almost like there's a real shift because everyone's benefiting from all of the experience in the room and the people have been doing it for years. But then you've got the people that are out there doing it now, gaining confidence, killing it, challenging the people that have been doing it for years, and then going oh yeah, maybe I've been doing it wrong for years. Yeah, a way of doing it.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yeah, totally. And they're like oh right, you're doing that with that stage of the process, bloody hell, that's good, you know. And they're introducing new, different processes and different set needs and different tools and I'm really challenging and disrupting, like methods that have been just done that way because they've been done that way for ages. Well, there's so many things I loved about what came out of the event, but one of one of the things that struck me was a couple of the guys who are now, you know, several years into building their search, retained executive search firm have, uh, have started to hire from the shreks, so they've got one from one from watches and they've got one from called barry yeah, well, two and a half years ago they didn't go.

Speaker 1: 5:18

What's a shrek yeah, they didn't even know what shrek was like three years ago. They, they're in year, yeah, they've just done their year three in the mastermind and going into year four and yeah, and they said what? What was what's been incredible is these people looking at their process and looking at what they're doing and they're saying what you're doing is fantastic, like, and actually in many places, better than the you know legacy methods and and these very big, established firms and that and that's that's special, like they've been so intently listening, so carefully, curating and building their own way and forging their own way.

Speaker 1: 6:01

That isn't the same, it's different, but it's as good, if not better, in in their own way yeah, and staffing, recruitment, call it whatever you want is historically full of egos yeah, and there's a lot of arseholes, yes, and that means, I think, it's quite a few and we don't work with them.

Speaker 2: 6:25

It's quite, it's quite difficult, isn't it, to find a peer group that, ok, aren't direct competitors because we're quite selective with who we let into the group, but still competitors, right?

Speaker 1: 6:37

There are some competitors yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:39

That will say can I just stop you and say that's fantastic, yeah, right. And there's no ego and there's no personal gain.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yeah, it's just to acknowledge the amazing work that they've done and that must be so reassuring, but so fulfilling as well and every time we do these things I think, I don't know, I'm sort of mindful that is it going to be the same things that come out?

Speaker 1: 7:05

you know every time we do them and people ask me that they'll go to one of those and they go, but you know the one in March in LA. That's going to be kind of the same right. Every single time we do it different stuff comes out. Doing with chat, gpt on the um assessment and interrogation of the assessment and scorecards for candidates absolutely blew my tiny mind.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Blew my tiny mind, it's just somebody wrote had created a prompt in chat gpt to create scoring metrics yeah for c-suite hiring yeah, yeah, yeah, not not yeah it's like this problem that said like basically build, build me a reporting scorecard against this job.

Speaker 1: 7:54

Brief enter yeah, build me not, not just the score. Well, yeah, the scorecard, the matrix of assessment, the questions and the the, yeah, the matrix of measurement against those, those questions to measure, you know, unacceptable through to outstanding, on all of the answers of all of these, and then putting in the you know the answers to the interview questions and then score this candidate like against this criteria.

Speaker 2: 8:22

But again, right then, what I loved is I sat there thinking, oh my god, that is mind-blowing, like, but that looks so complex, like how do you create a prompt? And it would have been easy for the individual that shared that. Yeah well, I don't mind saying it was paul, who is now a coach of ours as well but it would have been very easy for him to say. You know difficult and I'm amazing and I put all his time into it and actually this is a piece of piss.

Speaker 2: 8:50

You can all do this. It really isn't that complex.

Speaker 1: 8:52

I'm sure you all have to do it, yeah, yeah, it wasn't really good and that you know stuff like that that you know we talk about for a while and we go into deep and um and everybody, can, you know, is now able to do that right, right, when we finish that section. But to the really really simple things. Like you know the tips that Rowan was sharing on, you know somebody ghosting you that you straight away can pick up and use. Like you know, have you totally, have you given up on this now, but just always, within two minutes, get some response and sometimes, like it's so often, the smallest little things. It's like a rephrase in an email or at the end of a sentence. That just changes, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:35

It's like the blocks for people so often aren't like big, humongous things that need a total rethink and new strategy and break up the business and rebuild it again.

Speaker 1: 9:47

it's like a tiny thing I know someone goes oh, I've got that fixed yeah and uh, there's several people in the room once talked about internationalization, lots of people working in one country or one region and not not had much or any experience of working overseas. I'd probably say there was what five, six, maybe more of them in the room that put their hand up when, uh, that was a topic and one of our members, who's again come through the foundation course, uh, she says, yeah, I got. I would say, who's got that going well? But there's no point saying, well, this is what I think you should do. It's like let's follow the people that have done it and done it well. So who's got that going well? And that's kind of how the mastermind thing works. But so who's got it going well? Lucy, yeah, I've got that okay. Cool, tell us. Tell us what you've got going on. You know I went from, I'm based in Leeds and I used to always recruit in Leeds and now I'm in 20 countries.

Speaker 2: 10:39

Okay, so how did you?

Speaker 1: 10:40

do that. Lucy and she just, and it was really straightforward, it wasn't. It's not complicated, it's not difficult and for everybody in that room I know that after that 20 minute half an hour section on uh, you know, compliance and legislation and um ease of doing business in the different countries we talked about and live examples of exactly how um it's done, I've come away going right, that's, that's my plan, that's the plan for spend 25 without a barrier without worry, knowing that they've got her to talk to and us to talk to and all the other people in the room that shared their experience whenever they get stuck and it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 11:18

I mean, we never run the mastermind events in warrington. I don't know why, because it's a beautiful place. I people would travel from australia and california. They would come to warrington.

Speaker 1: 11:29

We've got an aikida and we've got some golden gates oh well, okay, I mean, we can put it out, I'm not kidding I'm not kidding, right, but there's always a long drive home, right.

Speaker 2: 11:38

So for us, and I always kind of come away with a mind full of ideas and context and content and like the mind in overdrive. But I also always come away with a mind full of ideas and context and content and like the mind in overdrive, but I also always come away with a feeling of relief, and what I mean by that is thank god you had the idea to put that together, because some of the stuff that's shared in that room we can't give to people.

Speaker 2: 11:59

Yeah, it's so good, it's so good'm thinking like that isn't even on my radar. Never mind, am I capable of talking about it.

Speaker 1: 12:07

Yeah, and for me. You know I was very, very nervous when I first set the mastermind up and you know that I needed a lot of encouragement from you guys and I mean I've got Sarah to thank me. It was Sarah that pushed me into it. I kept saying I can't do it, I can't do it, I can't do it, I'm not experienced enough. What have I got to give? And she was like you can, you can you're going to? And she sent me cards and she sent me flowers and she sent me just encouraging motivational stuff going you can do this, you can do this. And every little wobble that I had, like I'm too scared, I don't want to do it. She kept pushing me on and I'm so glad she did because I'm just a facilitator Every now and then I think, oh yeah, I've done something like that and I can show you that. But I mean I must've done that probably twice over the course of two days.

Speaker 1: 12:51

There was, there was a point where I thought, oh yeah, I've got something to show on, that Most of it now is just the level and the breadth and the depth and the variety of experience and expertise that's come from firsthand-hand experience. These aren't leaders that are going yes, my business does this. This is like I am doing this or hi, I've just done this and this is how it went and this is what we learn, and it's all in real time. Like so many of these executive search forums and conferences and I've been to loads all over the world they're great, right, they're really good, but a lot of it is boasting show. You know, yes, our business is here and we do this and we've got this. Um, you know revenue and this, you know these kind of projects, but that's not helpful. That's not what people in the room need.

Speaker 1: 13:37

They want to know right, what, what journey did you go on to get there? What mistakes did you make? What? What learns? What would you do differently next time? And the specific detail around right. Well, how do you diversify the offering? What things did you consider? What? Why didn't you do that? Why did you do that instead of that? And when you did that, why didn't that work?

Speaker 2: 13:55

and why did that work and what went well when you did that, and that's the kind of debt it's just experience that you just um, I said you couldn't get it, I mean you'd have to buy it and it costs a lot. I had kind of like almost seen the other side of the fence in terms of how that helps and the value that adds, because Saturday night I got to sit in a pub with a pint, right. And you know, one of our ambitions over the next kind of 12 or 18 months is to do more work in Japan. Right, we know we can help more people there, we can add more value there but, like, even though we've coached a lot of, people in japan, me and you don't have like great knowledge of that market right.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Oh yeah I. I get to sit in the pub for two hours next to one of the members, paul, who runs a search firm in tokyo and has been there the last 25 years, and he spends two hours giving me all the support, all the help all the advice we need, and I was thinking how much would we have to pay an exec director to give us that?

Speaker 1: 14:49

Yeah, I know, and that was the other thing. It was like we've got Sabrina from San Francisco, we've got Sean and Tom from New York, Mike came in from Dubai, Paul came in from Tokyo, Joe from Canberra, Don from Sydney, Like literally.

Speaker 2: 15:10

Dave from what Harare?

Speaker 1: 15:13

Oh, yeah, harare.

Speaker 2: 15:15

I always get it wrong when I say Huawei, which is the phone manufacturer.

Speaker 1: 15:18

Yeah, he lives in Zimbabwe but the headquarter is in Harare in sub-Saharan Africa and loads I haven't even mentioned. But the breadth is like is inspiring and there's. There was nothing that came up over those two days, nothing from the detail around. You know the outreach and the uh, the, the specifics around how the dripify campaigns are set up and how that interacts with a manual outreach and exactly what's being shared, kind of word for word, that's getting the best results in different markets to exit strategy and um, leadership development for the members of the team is nothing that someone or several people in the room hadn't had direct first-hand experience or nothing.

Speaker 2: 16:18

But you don't make me laugh as well, though, like there's some. As we say, there's some amazing, amazing people. Everyone in there is yeah, it Like really successful people like huge billers. I would guesstimate there must have been 15 to 20 million of annual personal billings in that room. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:37

Probably. If not more yeah, if not more yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:41

And Rory said to me on Saturday night. He said quick question like why don't? Like, like me or the other Mastermind members, come on one of your collab calls at Search Foundations, because like actually, what I want to say to all the people on that call is like we're just two normal blokes and we were just exactly where you were a few years ago, thinking like we should move on.

Speaker 1: 17:03

Did he say that?

Speaker 2: 17:04

And we can't.

Speaker 1: 17:06

Did he actually say that? Yeah, yeah, did he. Oh, he actually said why like?

Speaker 2: 17:10

why doesn't? One of the mastermind members come on. And I was like, oh well, that's it. Thanks, rory, that'd be great yeah, you know and and, but it's so true, like, and you listen to the challenges and the problems that people face in that room, they're like, they're pretty normal, right, like the problems they people face in that room, they're pretty normal. The problems they come with aren't. I need to figure out how to penetrate the C-suite in Fortune 500 companies.

Speaker 1: 17:35

In the foundation course no.

Speaker 2: 17:39

No, but even some of the problems they face in mastery it isn't all. Some of them are yeah, some of them are of them are all a million miles away questions.

Speaker 1: 17:48

I think someone asked a question, I think. I think I don't know.

Speaker 1: 17:51

I haven't got flu, I haven't got a clue what the answer to that question is yeah and I'll be like dave oh dave robin any ideas and and they luckily always several of them go, yeah, and there's always one waiting to speak to share their experience of it and I'm like, okay, I don't know, I ever ever worried about um, you know the experience level in the room. But yes, I, I love, I love that, well, lucy's hosting a collab call for me, um, next week and, uh, and what's nice is when, when we ask one of the members and more experienced members to to do that and nick did one for me a few weeks ago so what the benefit is for the members is they get. They don't just get me, they get the people that are in it now and they get. You know, nick, who's diversifying his service offering, is doing so well with insight studies and competitor intelligence reports, um, and now his whole business model is starting to shift and he's sharing that as well. But lucy, with her internationalization and her outsourcing, is just insane.

Speaker 1: 18:52

She's so, so good at outsourcing um and like remote support, um, but, but they say they love it, like, as soon as I ask them, they're like they're on stage now have I like I'm, I'm one, I'm one of them that can kind of help people too, and they get so much from, you know, sharing that with other people, and so it's a real self kind of yeah, and the thing is they'll they benefit from it too?

Speaker 2: 19:16

right, because I I run all the search foundations, collab calls and actually I get a lot from just the questions. Yeah, people, someone asks a question.

Speaker 1: 19:23

I think like I've never even thought, I've never thought that way yeah yeah, I mean one of the things that really stuck in my mind is the? Um is one of the uh, more in-depth conversations we had around non-exec directors on day two and it just absolutely blew my mind. The the answers to what you can do with a?

Speaker 1: 19:50

um, not a pool, but a, a collection of in terms of how you can monetize as how, how you can, how not just monetize it but leverage um, the knowledge of and and contact with and um, you know, connections with a network of non-exec directors. I I don't know how to answer that question. I've never done that before and, you know, the more people I speak to about it, the more people are like, well, yeah, that, that that's absolutely what you can do, and I shared a couple of the other ideas and they're like that's good. You know, that's really good. And you come away thinking I can't wait now to see him in three, six months time and find out where. That's all. You know what the small, easy things that you can be doing now, uh, will have taken him and it's exciting. It's exciting. It brings me so much joy that they do and they look so happy.

Speaker 1: 20:46

You know those that.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Yeah, I mean, I think they're looking, they're bouncing around at the end of year.

Speaker 1: 20:53

Smash their end of year targets buying new cars, going on nice holidays and going. Can't wait for next year. It's going to be a corker.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Do you think they're going to look happier in LA in March than in Richmond though, because I've got suspicion they might do maybe yeah something about the sunshine, isn't it, although there's nothing I love more than American coming to England. Tom and Sean landed in Heathrow Airport at about 11pm and at 11.03 sent a message to the WhatsApp group saying which pub are we going to?

Speaker 1: 21:26

They missed a seat in the pub. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was good.

Speaker 2: 21:30

Big fan it was.

Speaker 1: 21:32

Yeah, and so what's your plan for Christmas, george?

Speaker 2: 21:38

What are you up to? Have a well-needed rest.

Speaker 1: 21:40

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2: 21:42

Is the plan Spend lots of time with family and just relax, ready for a big 2025? I think that was one of the themes of a lot of conversations over the past few days. Was you know, if we can get through 2024 and do well, 2025 is going to be bloody exciting.

Speaker 1: 22:05

Yeah, it's going to be an absolute cracker.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, what about you?

Speaker 1: 22:10

Yeah, same, really, we've done a lot of reflecting, haven't we, on our business and the Goldman Sachs programme and I keep going on about it.

Speaker 1: 22:19

But I actually shared the business plan and the growth plan and the journey that I've been on with Goldman Sachs program and I keep going on about it.

Speaker 1: 22:22

But I actually shared the business plan and the growth plan and the journey that I've been on with Goldman Sachs briefly with the group yesterday, and so many of them have been back in such to tell me they want me to work with them on their, on their growth plan in a similar way, which is awesome.

Speaker 1: 22:38

But yeah, I've got a lot of assimilating in my mind of all the information and the stages of the growth that we're going to be doing as a business and how that's all going to come together and, like all these things, it's easy to feel like it's a big mountain, you know, and that we've got to have this huge rest and then, like, get up and wear ourselves out, you know, trying to trying to climb it all in one go, and the way that it's helped me to break it down into phases, into stages of growth, is making me feel less like daunted by the prospects of that and more excited about these just incremental changes and these stages that we're going to be going through in the short term, the medium term and the long term. So, yeah, I'm going to be doing a lot of reflecting. I'm going to be having a few parties in the new digs, which is very, very nice, I must say.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2: 23:42

And a lot less work than the old days.

Speaker 1: 23:46

Yeah, you could say that. Yeah, yeah, you could say that it is a lot more manageable. I'm going to be playing a lot of tennis, but you can't play. I was gutted not to be able to.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Well, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. Do you know what? Yesterday, my tennis partner texted me and said we've got a match that was meant to be played in a few weeks be brought forward and it's like a really big match. So can you play on this Friday? Now I've done all my knee ligaments, I've like not been able to walk and all of a sudden I was like my knee's feeling a little bit better.

Speaker 1: 24:16

And it's all logical, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 24:17

And then, and then I broke up this morning and I can't walk again. So it was definitely not, it was just the excitement of the idea of playing tennis. So oh, I'm sorry, I can hop along.

Speaker 1: 24:26

It didn't hold me back over the last few days, I mean winter tennis is not as fun as summer tennis, so if you're going to be injured, this is probably the best time to be injured, I'm told.

Speaker 2: 24:35

I'm told 4 to 6 weeks, not 46 weeks. Four to six. So we're a week and a half in a little bit to go. But yeah, what a way to start 2025 with a fresh impetus and back on the tennis.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Yeah, exactly, having to play a bit of tennis whenever I can. And we've rented a hot tub for Christmas I don't know if I told you, but I'm very excited about that and having kind of just roll it off the back of a lorry into your garden and fill it up when you're awake.

Speaker 2: 25:03

So you better hope we have a good quarter, because what normally happens when you rent a hot tub is then you buy a hot tub no, I don't want to probably ask for the hassle yeah, I know what you mean, like chemicals and water dipping and all stuff yeah, no, I can't bother with that.

Speaker 1: 25:18

I'd rather just rent it for you know, when you've got a week off or a couple of weeks off. So you're going to see how that goes. I'm buying me a bloody car for Emily. Oh my God, I'm in used car buying hell. I'm just not a good judge of. I know nothing about cars. I don't even know what higher purchase means. I don't know what balloon payments mean. I don't even know what higher purchase means. I don't know what balloon payments mean. I don't even know the difference in cars.

Speaker 1: 25:45

And now we've got to work out what like wading depth because it floods all the bloody time around here she has to drive through now, I know about the cars, but I know nothing about wading depths I mean, if we put our minds together, I think we'll be able to sort out.

Speaker 1: 25:57

I need some more help with it, george, I'm getting a bit stuck. Anyway, we'll leave that for another time, and definitely not on the podcast. But in the meantime, um, what I would like to say to our listeners in their time, that hopefully they get a chance to rest and reflect on this year, is have a think about the life that you want to create for yourself and how you want it to shape up, and in terms of how you want your career to fit into that and how you want what career you want to create for yourself and what path you want that to take. And if you're not satisfied with the way that your model that you're working to, or the way that you're working with your customers, the services that you're you're providing to them and the way that you're operating, then, whether it's us or whether it's someone else, we see firsthand in depth the difference it makes to people's, not just businesses and careers we've experienced it firsthand it's incredible.

Speaker 1: 27:11

it's absolutely incredible and we've experienced it and we see it all the time over, not just like, oh, I've won my first retainer and I've won my second one, or I've won my third one, or oh, I've done 300k this year in retainers for over two, three, four years, and it's absolutely incredible. So please just don't be frightened of making changes that can have such a positive impact, that can have such a positive impact, a positive, lasting, sustainable impact on the life that you want to lead and the life that you want to create for yourself.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Hey, hey, couldn't have said it better. You like Gandhi.

Speaker 1: 27:53

Yeah, love it Very very philosophical. So, yes, we'll leave you all to have a wonderful, very restful and happy, peaceful Christmas. So, yes, we'll leave you all to have a wonderful, very restful and happy, peaceful Christmas and thank you for being with us this year. We hope you I can't, was it?

Speaker 2: 28:11

this is probably our first full year of the podcast and I still remember me and you saying no one is going to want to listen to us, but it turns out some of you do, so it means the world to us, thank you and we'll be bringing you loads more help, tips, insights, encouragement, inspiration, energy and advice in the new year. So who knows, 2025, lou, might actually be the year that me and you figure out what the podcast calls yeah, yeah who knows, who knows?

Speaker 1: 28:42

thank you for listening. Everyone Happy Christmas.

Speaker 2: 28:44

Thank you, thanks, lou.

Speaker 1: 28:47

Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 29:17

We want to say a special thank you to our Retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery Program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrain Search the podcast.