Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Nice to have you here, rod. Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 2: 0:23

It's a pleasure.

Speaker 1: 0:24

We've just started chatting with you, which made me think. I just want to record, because, whatever the story is, I'm keen to find out what it is. What, what happened since we saw you've been in a brace for six weeks um, on your arm, what did it?

Speaker 2: 0:36

actually happen before we met over in Melbourne and Sydney, um, but I was waiting until I got back here to have a an operation to fix up some damage to my shoulder, and so shoulders are notoriously slow to recover from. So I've got five or six months in front of me of getting getting it all back together again and you've got some nice sorry, I said you'll be back in the boxing ring in no time. I could be, happy to put my arm above my head. I'm after small goals at this point.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Yeah, definitely, and you've got some lovely winter sun on you. Whereabouts in the world are you?

Speaker 2: 1:17

I'm in Perth in Western Australia, so a long, long way from where you and I met, but yeah, on the beautiful west coast of Australia, which I think is obviously a very very nice place given that's where I'm from and where I've come back to.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Yeah, I bet I'd love to go out there. I think when we visit places we tend to end up in the city and don't spend too much time outside, but next time we need to make sure we put some time aside to get out of the city well, thank you so much for joining us when we did meet. We met at the rcsa conference in melbourne a few weeks ago and discovered, as it happens not so coincidentally that we actually have clients in common.

Speaker 3: 2:04

Of course.

Speaker 1: 2:05

Yeah, which was wonderful to find out. And we had such an interesting discussion after the conference that I felt compelled to bring you into our audience so that they can hear some of your wisdom and your experience. And I mean, I read your linkedin profile yesterday when I was doing a bit of research ready for today and it's really good. Like anybody that's listening to this, that's got any kind of curiosity over what uh rod does and you're about to find out much more about it. But have a little read of that linkedin bio. It's so good, it's so nicely written, it's so I don't want to use your word authentic, because it's so um, it can be a bit overused, but it's really lovely.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Anyway, yeah, very nice, well well, I don't, I don't actually like talking about myself, and so I had to get someone to write that so oh really the wonderful karen tisdaledale, who does wonderful work on LinkedIn for people and helping them express themselves on LinkedIn. She came on board to help me with that, so I have to give a shout out. I'm like a lot of people. I love talking about other people, but I don't like talking about myself.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether I'd say a lot of people, I'd say quite a lot of people like talking about myself. Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether I'd say a lot of people, I'd say quite a lot of people like talking about themselves. I'd say that's more the minority, not the majority but, very nice to hear, definitely in this industry.

Speaker 1: 3:34

So, rod, we're going to come to you in just a moment and find out more about why we've been so drawn together and what common ground we occupy, and more about all the other stuff you do. But before we do that, it's been a little while since we shared with our audience some of the stuff that's going on under the hood at Retrained, so Jord and I are just going to share some recent updates and news, if that's okay with you. This is the part in the episode where we just share some of the wins of the week to give everybody a little bit of joy and light in their lives and inspiration. George, I think this one is one of the masterminds actually.

Speaker 1: 4:21

So this is Aaron. He says first retainer from a a webinar. Who knew that was going to be possible? Hey folks, I wanted to share that we've just won first retainer from one of our own webinars and, given that we've only run two so far, it's not a bad conversion rate. I'd say that it isn't. There's no doubt that setting up and hosting webinars appears to elevate your level of expertise in the eyes of your audience, and it certainly helped in this case.

Speaker 3: 4:46

Let's go and get some they were the podcast, isn't it? People think we actually know what we're talking about yeah, yeah, it's true, it is true.

Speaker 1: 4:55

Uh, one of yours, george yeah.

Speaker 3: 4:59

so, um, this was andrea. She dropped me an email saying she had the opportunity to pitch for her biggest retainer ever. This was like a really senior C-suite opportunity. And yeah, she said she wanted to say thank you. They ended up winning the search. They've agreed to pay us a fair amount of money. It's a shit ton of money if they hire through the rolling retainer too, so a win-win, much appreciated. Big hugs.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Big hugs from Andrea. Very nice, more shout-outs to you, george. Hey, jordan, I just wanted to share that I've had an offer on my second hire from this multiple three positions. First retainer I think I know who this one is 50K above what they originally wanted to pay for this role, wow. So fingers crossed. The candidate seems to be thrilled. We can get it over the line next week. There'll also be a 20k bonus later on in the year if said candidate brings a certain client after their restrictive covenants expire. Today, during the steering meeting, one of the founders the more scary one acknowledged that I had been delivering. So fingers crossed. I've been working so hard on this the past three months and it's started yielding results. Thank you again for giving me the courage for this and all the support. Have a lovely weekend. That's Joanna, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 6:18

Yeah, just for all of you listeners, Joanna started by listening to this podcast.

Speaker 1: 6:23

Yeah, she did, she did. All of you listeners. Joanna started by listening to this podcast. Yeah, she did, she did. She listened to this and then joined up and she won, didn't she win her first retainer just by listening to the podcast?

Speaker 1: 6:32

yeah, yeah uh, yeah, this is lucy. So lucy is pitching against the shreks for the first time had a pitch today for vp of international. It wasn't until after I'd pitched that I'd asked which other search firms they were meeting, as it turned out. I mean they've been blanked out, but I think it was a Corn Fairy and a Spencer Stewart. I wasn't prepared for all of this Swear, another podcast later.

Speaker 1: 6:59

Sorry, I did say a few bits about how, as a small boutique, we are very fast and flexible in our searches. I did say a few bits about how, as a small boutique, we are very fast and flexible in our searches In comparison. Anyway, now we'll see, but I'm quietly confident we'll get it. I mean to be pitching at that level for the first time and feeling confident is absolutely phenomenal. Huge thank you, lou. I can't thank Louise Archer enough. Sorry, I shouldn't be reading this out. This just shows the commitment you have to the community you're building which we do, don't we george massive commitment.

Speaker 1: 7:28

I have a situation I've never had before. Uh. He goes on to explain. It was a challenge in uh, the execution of a project. Um, after a number of texts, even late on, I had a different view on my approach and today I had a long call who took complete responsibility, basically having feared he would lose the confidence of the client and the next position, which would be our biggest to date. I've actually gained further respect from them and a complete turnaround in their behavior, which is reflected in the feedback given. Thank you again. It was a big challenge and, with your guidance and confidence, it supported our new growing relationship with this client nice uh, ryan's doing well, isn't he?

Speaker 3: 8:08

he's doing really well. He's based in tokyo, um, and I mean this is a nice one for all of you, kind of listening. He said in a kickoff meeting yesterday the client wanted us to know how much expectation there was on us to deliver no pressure, right. Um, they had considered using a shrek firm until they said that ultimately they decided it came down to the consultant, not the consulting firm. This is really important to hear that, despite there being bigger names out there, ie the shrek firms, one's own individual enthusiasm and commitment is what wins so lovely, so lovely and finally so lovely, and finally TJ he's coming on the podcast.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Is he oh fantastic.

Speaker 3: 8:53

So, he said, just wanted to share with the community and celebrate that, as of today, we have sold just over 130K in retainers Not too shabby, considering I've only just graduated from the training this past Tuesday. As of next Tuesday, we will have invoiced over 35,000 in initial installments within a 30 day period. Honestly, it's hard to wrap my mind around. My team and I are incredibly grateful for the training provided through Retrained. My best advice to anyone is to truly trust the process, follow the scripts and don't be afraid to try and fail.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Lovely, how lovely.

Speaker 1: 9:28

So that's a little bit of say that again oh yeah, he's doing well I mean, so is ryan, so is andrea. I mean they're the good people doing what they deserve to be doing. So there's some good news stories.

Speaker 2: 9:45

That is good, isn't it? I mean, if those people do stop and reflect, they'll really appreciate the different relationship they've got with their clients and, you know, standing out from the others, it's fantastic.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 10:00

It's a great point, though, because I think so often I remember when I went on this journey, rob. And it's very great point, though, because I think so often I remember when I went on this journey, and it's very quick. It's just easy to see the financial commitment and like, oh my god, I've got all this money coming in. It's forecastable and that's great. But you're right, there are so many not I was going to say less tangible benefits, but they're very tangible too but other benefits too that come as a result of it that's right.

Speaker 2: 10:24

It's a different conversation you can have with your customer if you've got that sort of relationship and signing those sort of contracts, yep yeah, yeah, it does, which has like ripple effects across all areas of your life, doesn't it?

Speaker 1: 10:36

and makes your working life so much more enjoyable and fulfilling and satisfying and manageable. Uh, which means that your life is more fulfilling and satisfying and manageable, and, yeah, people say that. Uh, I'll never forget, um, one guy say that doing this has made him not just a better consultant but a better father and a better friend and a better husband as a result of it, and I can understand that it was the same for me. Well, not not being a father, but you know.

Speaker 3: 11:13

But if you think, though, as well, it's not just about the money, is it? I mean, some people join us and they're motivated with money, but we have some joiners that are so successful contingent recruitment they earn a ton of money and they're still not fulfilled and not happy and not where they want to be, so so true.

Speaker 1: 11:36

So, rod, um would love to share you with our audience. Um, I not not many people well, I don't know many, not everybody sets up um in in recruitment and sets up their recruiting firm with the objective of getting out of it. Uh, and, and it's funny actually, because, knowing what I know now, it's funny that more people don't really that, don't almost think about it right at the very beginning. But, but they don't. Most people establish their firms to provide a living and build a business and and so on. Um, but you're, you're one of those people that helps facilitate those thought processes. And, um, what people are trying to achieve in the longer term, aren't you? Can you tell our audience a little bit about what you do.

Speaker 2: 12:31

Yeah, so we're probably known as the guys who buy recruitment companies and help sell recruitment companies, and what we actually do is sometimes a bit different to that. And what we actually do is sometimes a bit different to that. And, if I had to describe it, I mean I think what you do for organisations in terms of getting them from a very transactional and contingent environment to doing something with a bit more conscious thought and a deeper relationship and a higher value to what they're doing, we try and get people to think about their business in the same way and make conscious decisions about where they're at and what they're trying to achieve and how they want to live their life, and so on. And so there's a lot of very shallow talk in the recruitment industry about oh, I'm going to build this up and sell it, but that's sort of Friday night pub talk. That's not actually a plan, is it? That's not actually something that people are consciously working towards.

Speaker 2: 13:27

And so we actually talk more people out of selling when they come to me and say they're interested in selling than we take on as clients and try and help them achieve that, because quite often they've come with the wrong view or they haven't really thought through the implications or they don't have the next step in their life sorted out, and so it's really about conscious decisions of. This is where I'm at. This is where I'm trying to do. This is the balance I'm looking at from my personal life and my work life. These are the. This is the way that I want to live my work life in terms of having a big company or a small company and so on.

Speaker 2: 14:07

So all of those things need to be thought through and people need to make very conscious decisions about them, and when they end up in a certain position, they need to understand the implications of what they've done. So some people have a very happy work life in the recruitment industry but don't build equity value. They need to understand the implications of that. Other people don't earn much money on the way through, but they are targeting something which is a bit further down the track of building equity value and maybe selling it one day, and that's okay. All of the processes and all of the sizes and shapes of recruitment companies are valid. You just need to understand where you are and what the implications are of what you've done. It's so interesting Carry on.

Speaker 2: 14:52

I've got loads of questions already. Well, no, that's fine. And then look, there's a whole range of things within that. So quite often people go in to build recruitment companies with shareholder partners and that comes with risks and challenges and things that have to be done and sometimes it doesn't work, so the business marriage fails, if you like. So there's a whole range of things around there about helping people with what I call the business of recruitment as opposed to the function of recruitment.

Speaker 1: 15:25

And tell us, if you will, about those words you've used there. Rod equity value. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how people build it?

Speaker 2: 15:35

Yeah, so I mean, unlike a house, which is something physical and has value that people can identify and is published and, you know, might depend on the number of bedrooms and where you live and those sorts of things the value of a recruitment agency is quite different and we actually define the value as the risk associated with earning future profits.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Value as the risk associated with earning future profits, and you'd actually like that statement, because if you're doing contingent work, well, you've not got much future that you can point to, whereas if you're doing retained work or you're doing temper contract or RPO or whatever it may be, then all of a sudden you can start talking about future profits and therefore the value of your business goes up.

Speaker 2: 16:23

But there's also issues around size, because size has things to do with sustainability and quality of the leadership team and the dependency on the owner and all of those things. So a five-person company is very different from a 25-person company, is very different from a 50-person company. So there's all of those considerations as well. So there's all of those considerations as well and you know, we help people to understand how their business is perceived from an external party, as opposed to what they might think about their business and therefore, what decisions do they want to make about how they want to change that in the future? If any, you know they might be quite happy with what they're doing or they might want to change it because they're looking to build that equity value or build greater sustainability or be more attractive to an external party.

Speaker 1: 17:14

And what. There are all sorts of paths, you know. The longer that I'm in the industry and the more as a business owner myself, the more I learn about what happens next and the different options available. Like what? What are the different routes that are available and options open to a recruitment business owner in terms of that step that you're building value towards?

Speaker 2: 17:43

Yeah, well, I mean there's no rules. I mean, some people are serial starters and sellers and other people build something that they want to leave a legacy behind and either pass on to the next owner or their staff or even their family. There's probably not enough of the latter and too much of the former. In some ways, it shouldn't be a short, sharp exercise, and so you know, every possible combination and potential outcome is available. What we are trying to do is make sure that people don't get to a certain age where they say I want to retire now and they have a big misconception about what their value is or who might be interested in their business. Because, on the one hand, we think it's terrible if people are looking to shut the doors on their business because that's no way to end a career, but on the other hand, they need to think about wealth and think about value and understand what they're working towards. That leads that to the last moment.

Speaker 2: 18:51

So so there's a bit of planning required and a bit of reality required about how you're progressing your career as a business owner and what you are looking to achieve in the future, and making sure that you keep options on the table. So the options might be I love it, I want to keep going. Or the options might be I really love my business, but I don't want to necessarily do all the things I was doing previously. I want to step back a bit and delegate some authority. Or it might be to say it's time for someone else to own this business, and so you've got to keep all the options on the table because you don't know what the future is going to hold. So the next COVID might be around, or the next recession, or whatever it may be. So sometimes you can have a beautiful plan on paper, but you've got to have options because you don't know how that future is going to unfold.

Speaker 1: 19:41

I don't want to be firing questions. If jordan's got some, have you? I've got more. I could talk about this all day. I love it. And so what do you do? And I suppose in in the same sort of way, what advice you know do you give and do you advise people to get in, helping them on that journey, and not be that person that is at a certain age and then doesn't have options?

Speaker 2: 20:12

yeah, um there's sort of a um, the recruitment industry attracts, uh, people who are confident, sales oriented, um, active people, and that's sometimes different to some of the um, what circumstances, criteria that you might need to actually run a business over a long period of time because you want steady achievement towards a certain set of goals, and um, so, um, what we're hoping we do is with the educational component of what we do and we don't run training courses or anything, but we try and publish material is to just let people understand that they've, um, they need to stop and reflect occasionally and think about where they're at and what their wealth creation and what their business processes are going to be, so that they can make sensible decisions about their future.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Most recruitment companies are owned by are small to medium companies, and they're owned by individuals, as opposed to corporates, if you like. And so there's a necessity for the personal goals and the company goals to be aligned and, you know, don't send your company off on a direction that is inappropriate for what you're trying to achieve personally, you know. So, if you don't want to manage a whole bunch of people, well, that's okay. You can create a position within the recruitment industry as a very small business, or you can. You know there's all sorts of options available. So you know, but don't go too far away from where you're at. If you've got children in school, don't assume you're going to retire in two years' time.

Speaker 3: 21:50

You're not, you've got to see those kids through school.

Speaker 2: 21:53

So you know all of those personal things come into how you run the business and what you're trying to achieve for the future what would your advice be, rod?

Speaker 3: 22:00

because I'm thinking of kind of our customers, right? I mean, I'm fortunate to get to speak to business owners every single day and some of them are in their 50s and starting to think about retirement, and some founded the business two years ago. When I'm mid to late 20s, and someone at that end of the scale right, that's very new into this journey how can they kind of start to come into consciousness and thinking about something that could be 15, 20 years away? How do they start that journey? Well, I mean, as a business evolves, there's a whole range of steps you go through and that's not just related to growth.

Speaker 2: 22:44

So what you do as a five-person company and how you run your internal processes and the level of complexity or corporate capability you need is very different from when you get to be 20 people or 25 people or something like that. So I mean, think, I think people need to always have avenues to get external advice, whether that's just groups of peers or whether it's joining formal groups or whatever it may be.

Speaker 2: 23:11

But you know, don't don't believe that they know everything. I mean, when you start business, you really should lean on some people who've been there before and who can give you some advice, and not just one necessarily. I mean consult widely, go to conferences, I mean travel, do all of those sorts of things, because there's so much to learn and get exposed to and you probably don't know when you start how you're going to end up, because you probably don't even know that much about yourself as you start. How you're going to end up, because you probably don't even know that much about yourself as you start that business and you're going to evolve that over time and you need to be exposed to a whole range of things. So, for example, people start businesses with multiple shareholders who don't have a shareholders agreement and that regularly bites people in the tail because something happens and they don't have the framework to be able to resolve that dispute. You know, I mean that's just a simple example. So if they've got some advice early on, they put those things in place.

Speaker 1: 24:07

Very nice, I think, when I just speaking from personal experience. When this business started to grow, I always probably unconsciously thought and felt that the team that helped me to grow it would be the team that ultimately ran it. And that was fairly unconscious. But only as I get further down the line now do I see that unconsciously I was. You know I was building a business that did support what I wanted personally and that fitted with my values, and you know I wasn't one of those that thought I'm going to build a business and grow it and sell it. That was never. It was never what you know the way I thought about it.

Speaker 3: 24:58

I'm glad for that.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I wonder where you were going with that I realized I'm wrong and I'm just gonna say uh, yeah, but but it's true, it's true that the driving force to start a business and the values and the integrity and the things that come from the people who start the business is usually, at least in the initial years, that that is the values of the business, that is the driver and the purpose of the business is usually, at least in the initial years, that that is the values of the business, that is the driver and the purpose of the business.

Speaker 2: 25:23

And you know don't run away from that. It's just that that will get refined over time. I do believe that once a company gets to about 20 to 25 people, by the way, that that changes for the founders of the business, because you're now building the business to keep motivated the leaders that you've put in place.

Speaker 1: 25:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:44

And so it changes. It becomes a cooperative thing now of saying what are we going to do. But when you're a five or ten-person business, it's definitely the founders that are driving those things.

Speaker 3: 25:54

Yeah, and the DNA and the values, the, the mission underneath it all I think we we've recruited against that right, and actually I think, if you look at our team, we all, yeah, they're set by you, but I think we all buy into that because we recruit against that yeah, we.

Speaker 1: 26:11

I not against it as in opposed to it, but um using it as a guideline yes, yeah, yeah, we do that's right, but you're. But you're right, rod. You know, as that new management team comes in to being in, the business goes to its next phase. It's then the collective management team's dna, and that's right.

Speaker 2: 26:29

But the founders then are not doing things for their own personal goals, that they know they'll lose those leaders if they don't give them a vision and give them a strategy to go forward, and so therefore it changes because it's a group thing.

Speaker 1: 26:44

Yeah so interesting, and the ones who don't do it fail and go back to being a 15 person organization and what do you see?

Speaker 1: 26:52

like I'm uh, you know, for those we've talked about, the people that kind of don't think about this and end up thinking that you know they can do something and it's too late and they haven't created value or thought about what their purpose and built that to align with what they where they wanted to take them. And the people that do it a little bit earlier on and take that advice and then are able to align that journey where does it take them? Like what's the typical? You know, I'm trying to think of the people I know that have sold or merged or been bought, and I think you know there's only a handful, there's only quite a small number of people that have actually managed to achieve something like that. What do you see? Is that reflective of the journey that you see people go on?

Speaker 2: 27:50

I mean, I think the makeup of the UK market is very similar to the makeup of the Australian market, but the Australian market is smaller and there are thousands and thousands of smaller companies that we don't ever hear about, and so there is a constant flow of activity going on where smaller companies are being bought by other smaller companies, and so it is happening, and usually it's an exit of those founders, and sometimes it's successful and sometimes it's not, if you look back 12 months later. So there is a constant flow of activity. There's actually quite not that many that get press releases and that we get to read about publicly and that we follow, but one of the things that does surprise me is that, given how easy it is to start in the recruitment industry once a company gets to be in a few years old or gets to be probably over 10 or 15 people, the longevity of companies is actually quite long, I mean so it's not unusual to talk to a 10 or 15 or 20-year-old company.

Speaker 2: 28:59

15 or 20 year old company, yeah, um, and, and so those ones that get through that initial period do tend to stay around for a while. It does appear to be a an industry that keeps people's attention until they retire yeah, I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 1: 29:09

Probably part of the reason that I haven't seen it that often is just because I've not been around long enough and they're still in the process of doing it uh, and, and you know, they're building the, the value right now and, in fact, weirdly, that was kind of why we came across each other, because a number of the clients that are moving to retained are actually working with you, and moving to retain wasn't uh, oh, I've seen that. That looks interesting. It was a. It was a, um, you know, a strategic decision to build equity value in the business, and that was one of the things that they need to be doing. Is that right?

Speaker 2: 29:45

Yeah, and look, I'm not out there just promoting retain or anything, but I'm always trying to get people to have a solutions mindset with their customers.

Speaker 2: 29:55

And that's probably because I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant and I've never been a recruiter, and so I look at it from almost a pure business development point of view in that if you're best customers, you should be having very strategic conversations with them, and you can't do that if you're just one of the herd that is providing contingent services to them. You've got to be having some other conversation with them, and retained is one way to have a higher level conversation and get the conversation at a different level, because it's a partnership and a commitment on both sides.

Speaker 1: 30:31

What other things can they be doing? Rod that does the same thing. It's one of the ways that they can build the value and strengthen the firm. What are the other things they can do?

Speaker 2: 30:43

I think once a company gets a little bit of size about it, then it has a whole range of skills internally and the way those skills can be applied to an individual company depends on the problem that the company has got. And so you know, I've always been a believer in if you go back 10 years ago, people used to write up on the wall and say this is the way we do things around here, and I used to think that was pretty good because it was all defined and everything. And now I actually think that's a weakness, because I think you should be saying well, these are the capabilities we've got in-house. Let's go and talk to our favorite customers and find out what their problems are.

Speaker 2: 31:25

And design a solution for them and you might be able to mix the services you offer to actually solve the customer's problem, which means that for that customer you come back in internally and custom design a solution for them. Okay, and if you've got those capabilities, go and deliver that. It might be retained. It might be an RPO, it could be anything, so solve their problem for them. It might be partnering with somebody else to solve a bigger problem where the human capital component is one piece of it.

Speaker 2: 32:01

So, then I think you're a genuine partner, if you're a customer, and so the staffing industry is huge and diverse and, you know, I don't think we touch the sides of what's possible in terms of how we can we, the industry can help our customers.

Speaker 1: 32:20

I absolutely love that.

Speaker 1: 32:21

It's just music to my ears.

Speaker 1: 32:23

And it wasn't until I moved to Retained that I learned that there was a whole world of solution possibilities, that well, what happened to me was I was able to ask questions and talk to ask questions that uncovered bigger, more strategic problems like retention or market intelligence or compensation challenges or feasibility.

Speaker 1: 32:57

Even and luckily, I've worked with some very creative firms and some very established in creating bespoke, tailored solutions just like that, like future talent pipelining exercises. That just blew my mind. I didn't even know that kind of stuff existed, you know, and that that are all. They're all solutions that are sold in the same way that for us, retained a soul, because for me that is also a solution in most cases to to a problem that in in a lot of cases that the contingent model isn't solving, um, at lower levels and at higher levels, that some of the bigger firms aren't necessarily providing, uh, the right solution to either. Um, what about from a business operations perspective as well? That's kind of on the sales and the customer acquisition and the partnership side, what can people be doing like internally with their business operations that's going to help them create equity value and strengthen that position for them?

Speaker 2: 34:00

Yeah, that's a bit more complex and depends on the organization. No, no, no, no, but it's true, I mean so if you think about your position.

Speaker 2: 34:09

Then you think about a recruitment agency's position in the industry. There are two things about it. One is its value its equity value Come back to that and the other one is its attractiveness. So if you're going to market, are people going to come to your front door and be interested in talking to you? So there's a whole range of things about a recruitment agency that make them attractive to potential buyers, and it's their position in the market and the sector and geography and so on. But it's also brand and reputation and values and purpose and it's all of those things as well. They make you attractive, but what they're going to pay for is the performance of the company and the risk associated with that performance, and so I think you need to work on both sides of that, and they're different lists In terms of building equity value over time.

Speaker 2: 35:00

Running the business is a series of steps, in that you invest in, say, technology, and that's a project you run, and then, once you've made that investment, you hope that it lasts for a period of time three years, five years, whatever it may be and then you've got to do it again because you're bigger or technology's changed or something like that, but it's the same with organisation, structure and with quality systems and with everything, everything about the company, even the physical accommodation.

Speaker 2: 35:29

They're all just steps that you go through, steps in the right order and at the right level of intensity, because you can't over invest in something, you can't get ahead of that curve too far. But you've got to do those things or your, your organization, will be impacted, and so I use this really dumb term and I can't think of a better one but you've got to be appropriately corporate. So, as a five-person organization and as a 20-person organization, what is appropriately corporate changes. So the level of sophistication of your systems and so on changes, and it's navigating through that that actually allows you to have the options in front of you, because you are appropriately corporate, what enables you to do the things that are in your future, but you haven't overspent or done those things too early lovely rod, um tell us um where can people find you if they'd like to talk to you, and are you open to talking to people that are interested?

Speaker 2: 36:35

oh, I shouldn't say this, but, um, on my linkedin profile, you can actually book a meeting in my diary, so I'll talk to anyone. Um, I love having conversations with business owners, you know, and, as Jordan just said, you know, we have great days because we speak to people, business owners, all day, every day, and our life is good from that point of view, so happy to see people. Hhmccomau is the website I'm easy to find on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 37:05

And it's Rod Horr, spelled H-O-R-E for those of you listening that can't see Rod's name. And Rod is on LinkedIn and happy to talk to you. I can't thank you enough, rod, for sharing some of your wisdom, and I know there's much more I know from our conversation you're working with, although you're based in the lovely Western Australia, working with organizations all over the world, um, in the same way that that we do. So if you're a long way from Rod, uh, don't worry, um, I think you're still open and happy to talk to anybody in that any, any location absolutely.

Speaker 3: 37:42

I think I could say Rod is is. We spent about an hour trying to find you at the TalentX conference. Yeah, we did In an industry, where there are lots of people with big personalities and, subsequently, big opinions. We didn't meet a single person that didn't say oh Rod, what a great guy you need to meet Rod, yeah, let me try and help you find him.

Speaker 1: 38:13

Yeah, we had about five people helping us find you. Absolutely everybody that we we spoke to knows who you are, speaks highly of you and has either worked with you before or knows somebody working with you. So, although you're new to us and will be to lots of our audience, um, there there are plenty of points of reference. So if you want to find out more and I encourage you to, we absolutely encourage you to find out more about how to align the business journey with your wants and needs over time and think of that ahead, as far ahead as you can, then please reach out to Rod and have a chat with him. Thank you very much for joining us, rod. Sorry you were going to leave our guests.

Speaker 2: 38:50

I was going to say that if COVID hadn't got in the way that we'd be doing a lot more work in the UK During 2018, 19, even 2020, we were in the UK quite a bit and doing some presentations and working with some of the industry associations, and but then COVID came along and sort of put an end to all of those activities. So I'll just spend my time in Australia from now on, but happy to talk to anyone from anywhere absolutely.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Thank you very much and thanks to our audience for listening George.

Speaker 3: 39:25

I'll see you tomorrow, Mioka.

Speaker 1: 39:27

Yay, see you in Parma. Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 40:05

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery programme. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.