Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead.

Speaker 2: 0:19

You look so big.

Speaker 1: 0:22

What were you just saying? Jordan, You're really big.

Speaker 2: 0:24

My hood looks really big. My hood looks really big.

Speaker 1: 0:25

Hood looks really big okay for anyone listening and not listening to the audio um jordan's hood does look really big.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Yeah, I was nearly. I was a couple of minutes late because we had a mr griffindor incident at the gym oh, oh, hang on, let me see if I can remember what that means.

Speaker 1: 0:42

That is a child in trouble, correct, child lost. So at the gym, paul, they have all these different, like code names.

Speaker 2: 0:45

Oh, hang on, let me see if I can remember what that means. That is a child in trouble Correct Child lost.

Speaker 2: 0:46

So at the gym, paul, they have all these different like code names. So like Mr Stickers is like someone's been injured and you'll see all the team run with, like the first aid kits. Mr Waters is someone's drowning, logically, and then Mr Gryffindor is a missing child. So if there's a missing child they lock the building down. No one in, no one out. So I was like at the exit going to my car to come home to do this and they wouldn't let me out.

Speaker 3: 1:12

It's like a resort-wide terminology, or is this something that you made up?

Speaker 2: 1:18

No, no, no, this is resort-wide. I mean I wouldn't call David Ryder Resort but I mean it makes it sound more grand than it actually is. Yeah, so the kid was hiding in a locker.

Speaker 1: 1:27

No.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Yeah from his dad. Oh, that makes me sad, yeah, no not like as in like, scared of his dad, I think like hiding in a locker, as in like. Isn't this fun? We're playing hide-and-seek.

Speaker 3: 1:40

Oh right, that makes it better.

Speaker 1: 1:42

There's a good excuse for being late, though, I believe you, and welcome to the show, mr Paul Press.

Speaker 3: 1:50

Thank you for having me good to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Oh, it's so nice to have you here and thank you everyone for listening. Welcome to the Retrain. Search the Podcast. That's the one.

Speaker 2: 2:00

It's like a bit of a special guest episode today, isn't it? We're not going gonna follow the normal format, are we?

Speaker 1: 2:05

we're just gonna chew the fat well, because paul's story is so interesting and, I think, going to be really helpful for people listening. So, rather than take up space with all the other stuff that we normally talk about, I'd like to focus on that so that people can learn as much as they possibly can really.

Speaker 3: 2:33

It's been a while that we since we met. How long is it to you, I suppose, Is it like four years or something? Yeah, I think it was around kind of beginning of COVID time.

Speaker 1: 2:41

So, yeah, probably four years, three and a half four years, yeah, yeah, and for everyone listening, um, we'll let you share who you are and what you do, and I would love you to share your story because it's interesting and helpful, yeah, for those listening. So tell us please who are you, paul, and what do you do yeah, definitely, I'll try and keep it as a high level as possible.

Speaker 3: 3:02

But uh, my name is Paul Press. I'm now a partner at a company called Eastwood Partners. My firm, press Associates that I was originally running a few days ago even has been acquired, so I've got to get used to the new title and the new name. But essentially I specialize in hiring technology executives for private equity firms. So chief technology officers, chief information officers all three of the PE firms or the companies that PE firms buy and sell. And yeah, it's an interesting story.

Speaker 3: 3:41

I came through a contingent background, grew up in the UK, worked for a boutique search firm out of Leeds for three and a half four years, then moved across to Hayes and that's when I moved across to North America for the first time and came to Calgary, alberta, canada. So I've been here for the last 10 and a half 11 years now. So I've been here for the last 10 and a half 11 years now and yeah, it's an interesting story. I kind of gradually got into the executive search world just by being intrigued with senior level searches, the big fees attached to them, wanting to kind of compete with the big guys like Korn, ferry and Hydrix, and without any I I suppose formal training or working for one of those big guys, because just kind of gradually tried to get myself into that market. So I've been running my business for six and a half seven years now and, yeah, just got acquired and joined a new organization, so it's been going pretty well so far.

Speaker 1: 4:43

I'd say it has.

Speaker 1: 4:46

I would definitely say it has, and I mean when we met, if we go back, because I know a lot of the audience that listen, a lot of people are quite contingent focused and have aspirations to go on a similar journey to you moving into the c-suite, moving into those bigger, much bigger fees and operating at a level that they don't really know what it's like. Can you tell us a bit about you? Know how you made the transition in the first place. You know what were, what was that like and how did you do it to begin with, because it's quite a big, you've come like a long way in quite a short space of time really.

Speaker 1: 5:35

So can you tell us a bit about the earlier forays into working retained and to begin with, what?

Speaker 3: 5:43

it was like no, definitely so. In a nutshell, it all came through marketing out candidates. So I started off in oil and gas recruitment. When I moved to Calgary I helped Hayes set up that desk and after oil and gas business crashed I moved into construction and that's actually where I started Preston Associates. I was doing a lot of kind of project managers superintendent type of searches in California for general contractors and I'd always wanted to get into the C-suite executive search so started moving up the food chain within construction, started to place VPs, general superintendents, finally gone into the kind of the SVP level.

Speaker 3: 6:31

And that was through marketing candidates once again, just finding really good people, understanding what their career aspirations are, kind of where they have value, what organizations they'll be interested in working for, and marketing them out to those companies, making confidential introductions aligned with what they're looking for. And at that time actually I started dating my now wife who works at PwC and started to learn about how much PwC professionals make at partner level. And I did the math in my head and calculated the fees and I thought that would be a good place to go. So I started looking in the consulting world and realized that the McKinsey's and the Bain's and the BCG guys get paid even more than the big four. So started looking to those guys and what I found was that, well, a lot of consultants, when they make it to partner level, they either want to move into a Fortune 500 company as a chief strategy officer, chief executive officer, chief operations officer, or they want to go into private equity. So I started to research private equity. It was a pretty symbiotic need in that private equity firms really like the consulting background, the executive level presence. They have the managing multiple projects at the same time.

Speaker 3: 7:56

So started to find some really good partner level professionals at your big consulting firms who also had an industry experience.

Speaker 3: 8:04

They'd also been in the C-suite previously, started marketing them out and, yeah, a lot of PE firms started to uh bite and uh show a high level of interest in those candidate profiles.

Speaker 3: 8:16

And it really coincided when I actually started the uh retrained search foundations course kind of going back three and a half, four years ago now and I was still in the contingent mindset, marketing candidates out and the whole goal was to obviously place those candidates, secure interviews, uh. But slowly started to realize that, uh, it was a retained world that I needed to get into um a lot more uh credibility there, a lot more uh confidence and uh um kind of relationship building in that in that space. So it really coincided nicely with the search foundations. And I think it was a week or two in when I started to do the course and binged all the episodes in a weekend. I started to learn about how to position yourself, to pitch, to get into the mindset of it, and I think I won two searches right off the bat from marketing a candidate out and then turning them into a retained search. So that that's kind of how I got into it.

Speaker 1: 9:22

And it's funny because I we're working with a couple of your team, one of your team members in particular at the moment and coaching coaching her for the same, the same reasons and I listened to her pitch the other day and there was room for improvement and I asked I thought it'd be a good idea if she can listen to you, listen to you pitch, and I asked kindly if you would record it for me and send it to me so that I can have a listen, so I can help her shape it to be not the same as yours but along the same lines and it can be aligned, and I'm listening to it and it's so good.

Speaker 1: 9:57

I mean, it's really fucking good, like it was, it was good then you know it was good back then and I'm not surprised that you were. You know that you started winning projects straight away. But it's it's. You've evolved it and you've shaped it and it's really pointed to your market and your niche and your strengths against um. You know the space that you play in now against the, the hydrics and the egons um, but I can still hear some of the same terminology and there's some of the same some of the same lines in it that you know that are from the foundation course that still fit perfectly and beautifully within it.

Speaker 1: 10:31

Um, but what I love about you know working with you and the journey that you've been on and, um, you know the way that you coach. You know, not just with us but I'm sure with the other learnings that you do is you just absorb such a lot of information and take it in and process it action, and you know filter the stuff that doesn't fit for you.

Speaker 1: 10:52

You know so effectively, um, and have very effectively and efficiently built a model that's very fine-tuned and tailored with all the best fits of everything that you've been absorbing from lots of different places.

Speaker 1: 11:07

um, that suits perfectly the market that you've, and that's not a coincidence that isn't a coincidence, and that's a constant process of iteration and continuous improvement, which we see you do all the time. What were the challenges in the early days for you? You know what was difficult. I know that there was some early success which obviously gave you the confidence to go right. Got, I've got something here. I'm gonna keep going. Um, did you run?

Speaker 3: 11:37

into problems yeah, there's quite a few problems that come up which, uh, I'm sure a lot of people encounter. Um, first of all, running a startup business, you have absolutely zero presence there. Uh, you're competing against, kind of some of the biggest uh search firms in the world, uh, competing for big fees, so, uh, you're coming up against the no one gets fired for hiring ibm type of mentalities. So, um, you really need to uh um kind of consistently look at tweaking and kind of tailoring your approach to kind of react to the market. And I think the search foundations is a very, very good kind of foundation for lack of a better term for kind of building that off, for, uh, kind of building that off, because I think uh, um, it gives you all the tools and resources, the structure, uh, because if you haven't worked for a corn fairy or a hydrix, it's very difficult to understand what these guys do.

Speaker 3: 12:41

Um, they're not kind of public with all their information. They don't kind of display how they do their things. It's very, I suppose, cloak and dagger and they keep their trade secrets. So the challenges for me were having zero presence, pitching against some of the biggest guys in the world who have been around for decades, if not centuries. That was a big thing.

Speaker 3: 13:05

The instilling confidence in the clients, both on the present side, but also I just started doing this, so they're always like to hedge their bets and ensure that they're not taking on too big of a risk by going on with a boutique search firm.

Speaker 3: 13:22

So I learned really quickly that you need to have a consistent message, everything pointing in the same direction, because if they went online and looked at your website, your LinkedIn profile or whatever it may be, and you've got anything in there that doesn't coincide with what you're pitching, it just adds gray areas, adds confusion, gives the clients a good reason to go in a different direction and choose a corn fairy or another more established search firm. So those were the big challenges really instilling that confidence, that credibility, and giving them a good reason to use you over one of the big guys. So, um, those were the the big things, uh, that I experienced. And then I think on the process and and kind of structure piece as well, I came from a contingent background, no formal retain training. I actually thought it was just to give us a third up front and two thirds on delivery, which is kind of more of the contain model now.

Speaker 3: 14:27

But yeah, I'd run, I wonder if you retainers. Previously when I was working as the UK for a boutique search firm, but it was, yeah, everyone celebrated like you've got a retainer in great. Now you deliver on it through the standard, finding candidates as quickly as possible and sending them in, hoping for the best. So it was really understanding that it's a completely different service, that as a completely different service. So getting into that mindset and getting the, the tools and the resources and getting your best practices in place were all key elements to kind of going back to that instilling confidence and making sure the clients were happy with their decision throughout the entire process and just to give people a feel, for you know, give them some contacts here.

Speaker 1: 15:11

You, I think, as a contingent recruiter. Well, at the point that we met, I mean you were pretty good. What were you? 600 grand a year, something like that, yeah about that?

Speaker 3: 15:24

um, yeah, I think uh, yeah, it's about that 50 60k a month, if yeah and where?

Speaker 1: 15:30

where's a typical month now for you?

Speaker 3: 15:34

like on the low side, probably 160 170k a month, um, sometimes getting up to kind of your 250 300k months, uh, depending on where the retainers fall. But uh, um come a long way. And how much work do you do now on a contingent basis, zero Fully retained.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Amazing isn't it.

Speaker 1: 16:00

It's incredible.

Speaker 2: 16:01

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1: 16:03

And when you talk about the challenges that you came across, because it like it, I've experienced it myself it is hard when you're coming up against that, that level of experience and the legacy relationship and um strength of brand and all the things the powerhouses have what do you think has been the secret and or the what's enabled you to win over them in certain, in certain circumstances?

Speaker 3: 16:43

yeah, it's a good question. I'll say it's still very hit and miss. We're not winning 100 of our uh uh pictures and we still get the usual reasons of yeah, we decided to go with a bigger firm and it's usually a shrap firm for whatever reason. Um but uh, we are kind of consistently tailoring and adapting. So whenever we're getting feedback from clients we're kind of taking that in understanding it and adapting our process. But I think the key thing for winning the searches is we go above and beyond expectations and we try and demonstrate as much value as possible.

Speaker 3: 17:24

So when it comes to um pictures, uh would often come with references available. We'll come with case studies of similar searches that we've done. Depending on how much information we have, we do some market mapping and kind of data analytics intel on what that talent pool might look like if they were to kick off the search with us. We come with sometimes benchmark candidates for calibration. Say, these are the types of profiles that we're thinking could be suitable and, within our network, good relationships.

Speaker 3: 17:58

So we try and come with as much information as possible that will make the process as easy for the clients as possible. We want to make sure that they have a great experience, that they're kind of paying you to take some kind of work off their plate, so to speak. So we want to make sure that they're happy with the decision, that they're getting more than expected. So every time we pitch we try and kind of go on above and beyond and provide added value that maybe other search firms wouldn't come with. They maybe rest on their laurels and their little black book of contacts and just say, hey, we've got 100 years of experience, pick us and recycle, pitch decks and things like that. So we try and make it as tailored as possible with as much value in it for their clients.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Lou, did you see Ryan's post in school earlier on today? No, I just think it relates quite well to what you've just said, Paul. So he's out in Tokyo and he said he's just won a search and it was the first one he's pitched and won against the Shrek firm. And he said, in the briefing meeting the client made a point of letting him know how important it was that he delivers because it was between him and another Shrek firm. But they told Ryan they hired a consultant, not the firm the consultant works for.

Speaker 2: 19:23

And he said, how nice is it to know that one's kind of own kind of enthusiasm comes before, not just the name of the company.

Speaker 1: 19:33

Yeah, yeah and often I've found that and I've had the same experience that that isn't is. That, you know, is one of the main reasons you can stand out, um, and it's usually, on the flip side of that, an experience of that's been the opposite that they've had previously. And you know, like all these things, jordan and I always bang on about the diagnostic and and actually, if you can get the opportunity to find out more about what their experience has been previously, you tend to find that there's a common theme or themes, isn't there? Do you find that as well, paul?

Speaker 3: 20:16

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, we've actually got one of our slides on our deck, because our clients always ask us, being a boutique search firm, why we should use you over anyone else. So we've actually kind of got ahead of that and put a few of those reasons in there as to why companies have used us and then used us repeatedly, versus going back to other search firms. So, yeah, it's interesting. There's a lot of recurring themes there, with them being slower, being more generalist than niche um, and a number of other things that uh have cropped up that we uh kind of incorporate into our uh differentiators yeah, I've got a question and I'm kind of plugging a future podcast episode here as well I hope you don't mind.

Speaker 2: 21:09

I hope you don't mind talking about this, paul, if you do feel free to know what's gonna come right now we we met a guy in australia who, when me and lou were in australia last month, who worked with recruitment business owners who were looking to exit and sell and one of the points he raised is often he'll speak to a business owner whose permanent business is typically contingent and they think they've got a business that's worth something and actually he has to tell them that it's actually worth very little, if anything at all, because the revenue is contingent.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, in terms of you selling press and associates, what impact do you think and I'm not looking for numbers here, by the way, but in theory, what impact did your revenue being retained have? Did it help?

Speaker 3: 21:53

yeah, definitely. I mean, it was uh being acquired by another retained search firm, um, which was uh very complimentary to mine. So I think that was a key thing, um. But I think, depending on why they're acquiring, I think that's the big thing. If you're a business owner and you're looking to just sell and exit and not work in that business anymore, if you're winning 100% of the business and it's all contingent and you're kind of grinding away every month to win, that they're not really buying a business.

Speaker 3: 22:26

All those relationships are with you, the individual, and if you stop picking up the phone, the fees stop coming in. So the retain model definitely helps with that predictable revenue coming in, which is nice. You can usually project two, three months into the future. So it certainly helps because you see the biggest, I think multiples with the contract and temp desk where they have a kind of one-year, two-year forecast of all the contractors that are making certain margins. So the retained model is kind of a hybrid of that. You get to predict kind of this month, next month, the month after. So it's a more reassuring way to know that you've got clients who are willing to pay you consistently over a period of time. But it very much depends on why you're selling the business in the first place. If you're looking to exit and all the relationships rest with you, no one's going to give you a good multiple because they're not really buying anything. And that's even more exasperated with the contingent world yeah yeah and yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:40

Well, we feel really fortunate because all the way along your journey you know, right from winning the first few retained projects all the way to now to selling your firm you've been so generous and so kind and so helpful for those other people that are on the same journey and constantly sharing in the group and, um, you know in our community what's working for you and helping other people, and we're so fortunate now that you do the same in the mastermind group and show everybody what your pitch looks like.

Speaker 1: 24:19

You just dropped a recording on it in the group the other day and it's absolutely incredible and and everyone's going oh wow, right, you know I've got, I've got um. You know I've got to up my game, um. So what's next for you? You've got some. You've got your parents over at the moment, which is nice. They're meeting their granddaughter for the first time yep.

Speaker 3: 24:41

So, uh, first, uh granddaughter for them. So they're they're very excited. They've been uh uh waiting uh for four and a half weeks now since, uh, the birth date, so they've been uh very eager to get across. So lots of tears and uh, lots of joy going on. So, uh, we're going to be uh touring them around, getting up to the mountains for a few days. But, yeah, lots of exciting things going on in work as well.

Speaker 3: 25:07

We just did this exit to Eastwood Partners, so I've joined Eastwood as a partner. I'm going to be doing pretty much exactly the same as what I was doing before helping PE firms hire technology, talents, talents. Uh, in the executive leadership positions, uh, they do exactly the same as what I do, but in the finance function. So chief financial officer searches, vp, finance controllers, etc. Uh, fp&a, uh. So ityear exit as well. Um, so we're, I think, six months into it already, so I'm coming uh a little bit late to the party, but we've got four and a half years to uh hit these targets, so that's really exciting. Grow the business um, so, yeah, doing lots of uh exciting stuff like integrating my team with the Eastwood team and sharing best practices and what we're doing, what they're doing what works, what doesn't work. So yeah, lots of exciting things going on do probably.

Speaker 1: 26:28

Well, I, I mean, I say probably, I know because we have many individuals in the mastermind group who are kind of legacy, traditional, more classic executive search, and the methods and the tools and the processes that they use aren't as sophisticated or cutting edge, really as many of the techniques that you've adopted. And how does it compare then, when you're stepping in, have you yet to have chance to be able to bring some of the some of the processes and the tools that you've been using into a firm that might not be using things like that yet?

Speaker 3: 27:08

no, definitely it's been a. I mean it's day three at the moment, so still early days.

Speaker 2: 27:14

I expected more.

Speaker 3: 27:15

Paul can't believe you've not implemented all your process slow start, but uh, I'll make it back up um, but uh, um, yeah, it's uh interesting. They've got uh a really good uh process structure. Uh, they've hired really good people so that's helped with their kind of innovation and uh excuse me being tech forward uh. But already we're sharing kind of pitch decks and uh talking about what's working, what's not working. So one example is just the way in which we display calibration candidates, benchmark candidates, when we go to the pitch or the the kickoff meeting how they're displayed, how we're going about it. So we've started to integrate that into their process. But I think that's probably one of the best things about the search mastery and the people in it is that they've got the foundations from the search foundation course.

Speaker 3: 28:11

Everyone knows how to do retained search. Everyone's been successful in that space. But everyone wants to uh get better, and no one's kind of guarding their trade secrets or anything like that. No one's competing. Everyone's just wanting to do better, win more work, deliver on it with a very, very high quality.

Speaker 3: 28:32

So I think that's one of the best things that keeps everyone engaged and collaborating in that group is what's going on? What are people doing? What new tech stats are there? How do. I make my job easier but maintain the quality. So, uh, it's such a good group where you can even kind of pressure test. There's been probably a load of crazy ideas that I've had with tech stats that I think are amazing and then posting the group and sometimes it may not stick so or it may not stick with my own implementation of it. So it's a really good kind of safe environment to bounce ideas around and see what other people are thinking about and doing. So I think that groups really helped me to have an environment where I can kind of learn and figure out what works and what doesn't work and you're so good for giving back.

Speaker 1: 29:24

In fact, only this afternoon I think you're doing one of the collab calls for us and there to answer questions and and help other people with what's working for you. So anybody listening that likes the sound of the um, you know of working with us, uh, particularly in the mastermind, and paul is there alongside us, uh, helping and sharing.

Speaker 2: 29:47

And being the same with parenting as well.

Speaker 3: 29:50

Paul will just collab I think I need a bit of help there. To be honest with you, we're only four and a half weeks in, so uh, last night I, I lay in bed at 3am.

Speaker 2: 30:03

This is a truth, this is honestly god's honest truth. And back away my wife went what's that noise? And uh, gia ended up sleeping in bed with us last night because it was a difficult night and I said that is gia at three o'clock punching me on my ass, finding it hilarious, literally laughed. They're going three o'clock in the morning, so what, what?

Speaker 1: 30:26

tips have you got for paul? Like you've only just come through the first six months yeah, do you know what?

Speaker 2: 30:33

it's an absolute dream. It is like it's difficult and, yeah, the last couple of weeks have been tough. Like I wanted to describe myself last week to you as lou, I was like no, lou carries this thing around what did you say?

Speaker 1: 30:46

no, like it's a revival kit and it's like sugar and water.

Speaker 2: 30:50

In case you find a bee dead on the floor, I feel like this little thing on on my human I'm just laying on my back with my arms and legs in the air kicking around going. Someone saved me. I need sleep, but it's all worth it. It's all worth it, oh yeah, definitely, definitely.

Speaker 3: 31:06

I've been uh pretty, uh um thankful. My wife is well in canada. You can get 12 months off for maternity leave which is incredible. So, uh, she's uh taken on uh a lot of the uh heavy lifting and doing the night shift.

Speaker 2: 31:23

So I see becky did that for me as well, and monday was the first day back in work. So this week's the first week of, like, shared evening responsibility. Yeah, you've got all the good stuff to come. This is gonna sound awful, but I really didn't enjoy the first month or two.

Speaker 3: 31:39

All right, they're just like a little potato, aren't they?

Speaker 2: 31:41

all they do is cry and poop, whereas after a month or two, when they start getting a personality, that's when it gets really fun.

Speaker 1: 31:49

Oh, she's so cute. Yeah, it is a joy.

Speaker 3: 31:51

We're just at that stage now. Yeah, she's just started to do some smiles and giggles and things like that. So, yeah, just getting into that. Yeah, four and a half weeks in to that.

Speaker 1: 32:05

Yeah, four and a half weeks in love it well, um, but with that in mind, your time's so precious, paul, uh, with your uh lovely girls, scarlet and ashley, and, of course, your parents over, so we'll let you go and thank you for sharing your wisdom, as always so generous thank you for all you do in the groups to help um our members too, and um thank you for doing the Kellogg call this afternoon, my pleasure.

Speaker 3: 32:27

Absolutely love it, so it doesn't seem like work at all, so we're happy to do it. Thanks to all our listeners.

Speaker 1: 32:34

We'll be back next time.

Speaker 3: 32:35

Thanks Lou, that's good. Bye guys.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 33:09

We want to say a special thank you to our Retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.