Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Hello everybody, and welcome to Retrain Search the podcast. Hello to Jordan, my fellow coach at Retrain.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Hi everyone.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Hello to Dave. Mr David Wollstoneholm, nice to have you here. Bonjour, bonjour and hello to Ez Khan and to Kyle Blake from Humescape and KBFC, and we're so excited to bring this special session to you today. It's a little bit out of the ordinary for us because we normally follow a fairly similar format each time, but this time it's totally different because we've been having some talks behind the scenes with our very good friend Mr Wollstoneholm here, who's been on the podcast before, so you all know him, and we came up with an idea about bringing all the stuff that is working, that we're doing in the background with our clients, with pitching and winning retained work and personal branding, which is massively effective and helpful for all our members in the retained world too, about bringing us and our sessions and our work out to you in person, not just in person in our home ground, but over the other side of the world, to us in Australia. And we got so excited about it, and Dave Wollstoneholm then suggested that why don't we involve some other very talented and experienced professionals and experts in our space?

Speaker 1: 1:52

And here we are talking to Ez and to Kyle because we've got an announcement to make and that is that all five of us are running a day session together, and today the podcast is all about um giving away some of the stuff that we're going to be sharing with you in that session. Um, one of the things that we've been talking about is, um, business development a lot. Because of the climate at the moment and what's happening in the industry, business development is just more important than ever, and, as you've noticed that as well, haven't you? When we were talking, you said that most of the stuff that you do at the moment is focused around business development and that's why you're helping people. Can you tell us more about that?

Speaker 5: 2:41

oh, I, 100%. And also I'm just when you were saying we're all sort of kind of merging to put something together, I had a big smile on my face because I know it's so relevant, but there's so much skill here across so many different areas. I'm like how epic is that? So yeah, in terms of BD, we've had the most intake, the biggest intake that we've ever had over the last two and a half years from our BD course, and that's not surprising. Every single agency that we're speaking to is having a huge push across business development, and why I'm so excited is all of these skills that we've got between retained search across financials, across all these different areas all are leading into business development and so, yeah, it's huge.

Speaker 1: 3:36

At the moment it's such a huge push for almost every single agency that we're speaking with um so yeah, so I'm so excited that we're putting this there and when we talked um about it, you were saying that a lot of the things that you know, the fundamentals uh, around business development, people often mistake to be you know the operational side of it and the application side of it, but actually where you see the most um effect and and change and results is improving the softer side, the softer skills around business development. Is that right?

Speaker 5: 4:15

100, but we can teach people the fundamentals of business development in recruitment, right like I was taught. Taught fundamentals of recruitment 12 years ago, 13 years ago. So how do you do xyz? The real fundamentals that actually haven't changed in 14 years and they won't change in all honesty, the actual sort of process driven business development skills. What has changed is how people buy, how people engage with people. That has changed is how people buy, how people engage with people. That has changed dramatically year on year in my experience over the last 14 years. How people engage with people has changed how people receive information.

Speaker 5: 5:03

As sort of when we were buyers, we were relying on people actually giving us the information calling us, emailing us, giving us the information. As buyers like if we look at 10 years on, we are we can find all of that information online. We don't need to rely on people giving us that information, and so the buyer behavior is completely changed. And so how do we buy? How do we build trust? It's no longer the seller giving us a call, reaching out to us. We're no longer reliant on that. So how do we actually build trust? It's now. How do we actually build that trust? That socials, for me, is all of that type of stuff that people aren't actually focusing on and that, for me, is a lot of where the value is in upskilling for salespeople. It's that which David is amazing at and what he's

Speaker 5: 6:01

actually achieved for five, six years when I started my business, which I'm so grateful for. But that's what David taught me. And then it's, on top of that, actually the softer skills, as you actually present yourself. When you're in front of a person and you actually present yourself in a way that it's no longer what did work 10 years ago. That's no longer working.

Speaker 5: 6:23

So how do you actually cover what is actually a pain point for someone? How do you build that trust almost instantaneously? Because people will make up their mind as to whether they trust you within six seconds, and that's quite ruthless when you think about it. People will. All the studies will show you. People will make up their mind within six seconds whether they want to work with you, not want to work with you, but do they trust you. And that is quite a bit of pills as well, because most sales people go in going I've got the best products. I know how to pitch this and it's like great, you might have the best product, but I know if I can build rapport with this person better than you can, quickly, I know they will buy my products, even if it's not as good as and so how do you cultivate those skills?

Speaker 5: 7:13

and that's what I? For me, that's the biggest upskilling in recruitment. So, yeah, it's how do you pitch your candidate better. It's actually how do you present yourself better, how do you have a better presence, and that, for me, is the biggest soft skilling when it comes to sales that most people aren't talking about.

Speaker 3: 7:32

What proportion of recruiters do you think have those great soft skills in business development? What was that, David? What proportion of consultants do you believe have those great soft skills when it comes to business development?

Speaker 5: 7:46

Honestly, David, in my experience it's less than 10%. We're taught process in recruitment. Historically we have been taught process. It's this is how you do a reverse market. This is how many people you need to send to. This is how you have that conversation. It's very rarely.

Speaker 5: 8:06

How do you actually pick up on how someone interacts? How? What are their little buying behaviors? How are they presenting? How are you actually showcasing and picking up on the softer skills to mimic?

Speaker 5: 8:20

But it's all these things that we think are softer skills and it's odd, little softy, fine behaviours. That doesn't really make a difference. But we're humans and honestly, if we look at all stats, there is a don't quote me so hopefully no one messages us after this but there's 80,000 different things people are picking up subconsciously that are little movements in our face, how we're interacting, our tone of voice, everything other than what we're saying. And when we look at it we go what we're saying is so important, but actually we say this all across our bd courses. What you're saying yes, of course it's important, but it actually only makes up less than 10 of what someone's taking in. 90 of what they're taking in is your presence. How are you actually showing up? Because if you're not showing up with confidence, they're not buying. Whatever you might be selling and it might be amazing, but if you're not presenting it in the right way, they're not taking it in.

Speaker 1: 9:25

If you're not actually doing all these little softer things and picking up on subconscious things, they're not taking it in yeah, and I remember that reminded me, excuse me, when we were, when we, you know, this started this whole kind of melting pot and brainstorm of coming together, um, to bring what we're going to bring to.

Speaker 1: 9:43

You know, this started this whole kind of melting pot and brainstorm of coming together to bring what we're going to bring to, you know, the people is that video that I'd seen on social media of that girl who was hunched over and she was walking forwards and she was on that treadmill and she was kind of head down looking down, shoulders kind of curved in and she was just kind of walking along with her sort of arms kind of clasped in front of her and then all of a sudden she just stood back and her shoulders opened up and she leant back and she sort of put her chin up a little bit and her hands came like moving behind her side and literally she just looked like a different person and she was just striding out and it was incredible. It looked like a different person and and so I completely agree, like the and and it's weird, isn't it, because you say that only 10 percent of people have it, because you either, because it isn't really taught you either have it or you don't right.

Speaker 1: 10:33

You either grow up with that or you're learning that from your parents or from your peers some way. You know, like Jordan and I mean I know some of us have worked in places where that some of those skills were taught. You know, you were at yellow pages and yeah, yeah the first message stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Yeah. So, um, yellow pages selling adverts like plumbers and builders and stuff in the yellow pages in the uk. That was my first job out of university and I remember they had like this six week sales training course they put you on and it was renowned as like best in class in the uk and the first thing they told me as which really resonates with kind of what you've just said was people will buy from you for two, one of two reasons a, because they like you or b because they trust you. And if you can make them like you and trust you, they'll pretty much always buy from you.

Speaker 5: 11:17

Yeah, good nod to grey malt Jordan. Seriously, that is literally the thing that I say continuously for our courses. It is you need. I don't I'll say this on a bigger platform, but I say this in our courses I'm not the best senior marketing recruiter in Australia.

Speaker 5: 11:35

Hence, then, there are so many people better than me. I will always agree to that, and I will admit that. What I am very good at is people buy into me and they trust me, and so they know all the right by them. Am I the absolute best person for the job? Very rarely, but people buy me and want me to succeed, so they'll trust me and they'll want me to pull their own. Such a powerful motivator for buyers. You need to do that. It's not you're. You're not just selling your ability to fill the role because, let's be honest, there's another six people, your competitors that can fill the role, but it's who do they want to fill the role, and it's that trust, it's that, it's all of those things and it does come, come down. For me, it's the softer side, what people typically don't focus on. It's the softer side of sewing.

Speaker 3: 12:29

So is that why you wear a baseball cap? No, I've been growing my hair David.

Speaker 2: 12:35

I'm doing a baseball cap in two weeks.

Speaker 1: 12:40

And so it can be taught, can't it? It can be taught. We're just basically not taught it in recruitment Generally. Like you say, we're generally taught processes, as I was as well. But interestingly my mum was trained at Yellow Pages and I first worked for my mum, so probably some of that training has kind of rubbed off like on me too and I know it's kind of best in class stuff.

Speaker 1: 13:03

So I'm delighted that you're bringing that to recruiters because it's so valuable it is so valuable, but but, Dave, like you can start this process before, as Ez was saying, you know, to to the at the beginning, before we even bring a product to them or before we, even, you know, have conversations with them. We can start that process, um, with our online presence, can't we and you? I'm, as Dez says, he's, ever grateful to you, I'm ever grateful to you and we are for how you've helped us to do that um and have that impact on potential customers before we even speak to them. Is that right?

Speaker 5: 13:45

well, honestly yeah, just to reiterate, it was. I remember it was my first week or two in business. You reached out to me, david, and it was actually completely changed for my business.

Speaker 3: 13:59

It completely was I completely we need to have a man man hug in person, don't we? I think I've done that in our time, david. Well, I think the thing is, which is really important and I beat this drum is I help people define their brand before they even touch social, and that's their internal brand and also the external brand, so perceptions of them in the marketplace of the people that they want to do business with.

Speaker 1: 14:28

I think if you, if you do that we'll talk about what I'm going to be talking about in a bit at the uh the masterclass then the online part becomes so much easier and you start to connect with those people in a much simpler, effective way and the thing that we um, and we know how powerful that is because we've been through that process with you ourselves, and it changed the game for us as well, and continues to do so because you continue to help us with it and the thing that, um, we're kind of getting more and more into is defining who you're talking to and getting better at um, speaking specifically to your target audience, can you tell us a bit about, like, how, what, what's the secret to doing that?

Speaker 3: 15:18

knowledge, curiosity, finding out about them. Um, I'll talk directly to the people that I hope attend the event and this is not a damning point I want to make. But the reality is I work. I do work with some junior recruiters, but a lot of people that I work with are really good consultants. You know they're nervous about creating content, they're nervous about actually cutting through. They can manage the room in the boardroom, but put them online they suddenly get a bit fearful of what you know they're going to talk about, what people are going to think of them. But even so, saying that, what I've realized working one on one with lots of good consultants is they just don't really get into the head and the hearts and minds deep enough of their target audience. This is before they even do any online content.

Speaker 3: 16:11

And I think if you do that and I'll give you an example of that let's say, for example, you work with CFOs and a CFO is looking to bring in AI technology to improve their processes in their business, and so they're struggling with getting this brought in because the CEO is a bit resistant, the board are quite traditional, and so you know that if you can help that CFO, you know, come up with ideas of how he can influence the board or put best business case practice together, then the reality of all of that is it's a big pain and a void for that person, a challenge, but the reality is, if you can help in some way with some type of content it doesn't have to be from you, it could be from somebody else then the reality is that will return back to probably some kind of hiring.

Speaker 3: 17:07

You know, it might be an AI manager in that firm. It might be some other kind of diversification that they need to do with their staff to give them new roles as well. So I think it's just about the. Really, if you want to be a great consultant, you have to understand business problems.

Speaker 1: 17:25

but if you understand that more often than not they're going to relate back to some type of manpower workforce as well that always makes me think of, um, george, when you were, uh, we were talking about this and we were talking about how you know, when we're crafting content or approaches, then we're always trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the client.

Speaker 1: 17:52

You know we're always trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the audience and you were saying, george, you were hearing I don't know what it was on a podcast or something about the FBI guy that yeah, yeah, so I might.

Speaker 2: 18:04

I hope I positioned this in the right way. It was. I saw it on TikTok and it was an ex-FBI agent. And the lady interviewing him said if you could teach a general member of the public one thing that you've learned in all your training, what would it be? And he said, um, the difference between perception and perspective. And he said we all view everything in our life from kind of our own perception. He said my dad grew up telling me that perception is reality. Right, he said. But actually what we're taught in the FBI is when you can remove yourself out of that and you can start to see things from other people's perspective and you start to act in a way that's based on their perspective. You'll win in everything in business negotiations, in home life, in when you can understand what they're thinking, put them, put yourself in their shoes and act accordingly.

Speaker 1: 18:57

That's, that's how you win and that always, that's what it always makes me think, you know, and when you're encouraging us, dave to, you know to do that all the time and to think and put ourselves in the shoes of them and what problems they're facing and what's going to be helpful and what's going to engage them.

Speaker 3: 19:14

And yeah, that's what I mean, let's just carry on that example that I gave you know. So then, what starts to happen to that CFO? If, three months in after and still not getting this big AI transformation, how does he or she start to feel? How does that impact the team? How does that impact them? You know, wanting to stay in that organisation. There's so many different feelings and emotions that come with this as well, and you can talk to that person. And again, if you don't know those things, can I swear Of?

Speaker 2: 19:45

course, oh, freely.

Speaker 3: 19:47

Spend some fucking money on taking good people out for lunches to learn all about their lives.

Speaker 5: 19:54

Yeah and I think the thing that I'm so excited about with Air Merger Office, then, is all of this feeds in. I think typically, people compartmentalize all of these things going marketing branding is here, sales is here, retained is here, finance is here. No, all of this feeds in, because what you're talking about, david, is exactly sales it's emerging sales.

Speaker 5: 20:21

It then, and how you pitch retained is completely sales and marketing, and so it's so interconnected that I think too often people go that's that, that's that, that's that and they don't really interconnect. I'm like, well, no, they're one and the same and the approach is interconnected, but you need that measure of this is the overall approach, because it is a business idea. All of these things are to drive the business and I think people treat them as completely separate yeah, but they all um, as you say, as they're so interconnected, right, because the softer skills.

Speaker 2: 21:01

It helps people like you. It helps people trust you, caring about them, understanding what's going on in their world. They've been helping them with that. Building that brand helps them like and trust you. It kind of all it all plugs in, doesn't it?

Speaker 1: 21:14

yeah, so you, um, you're going to be helping people dave with putting themselves out there and talking to their ideal customer at our master class, um can I?

Speaker 1: 21:26

just point out one thing. Uh, just to give an example of how impactful that is, one of our members just started working with dave and she had one of her first sessions, or her first handful of sessions, with you and she implemented one thing that you suggested on Friday and she had a call booked from that thing the same day. On that call she used our process to diagnose and pitch on that call, she closed it on the call and she had the agreement signed and returned by the end of the evening on her retained project from a brand new client.

Speaker 3: 22:07

So that is how isn't, it, isn't it, and we only found out about it because we were on, we were well she.

Speaker 1: 22:14

She told me in my master class, my mastermind collab call, and then she told jordan, the um search foundations collab call, that she said I've just got to share something. I've got to share something, let me just tell you what happened. And then she told us a story.

Speaker 3: 22:24

So that's how impactful what dave is going to be sharing can be what she didn't tell you was that I was the client and I was just doing it. So she does six months more I mean I'll tell people.

Speaker 3: 22:41

I'll tell people what it is because it's so basic. And he was just, you know, offering a discovery call at the end of a linkedin bio, but not selling, but making it that they could walk away with more information, knowledge and value to make them better at what they do. And that was a teaser. It's not rocket science, but that language made them feel like I want to have that discovery call because I'm going to get something potentially for nothing, or to walk away one. Obviously, she added a lot of, gave a lot of value on that call and it transformed into a immediate search, which is wonderful, but that's kind of like just changing the language a little bit and making people feel like yeah that's, that's for me that that, that opportunity.

Speaker 2: 23:24

I love the simplicity of it, though. Dave, I remember, probably 12 months ago, you came on one of our collab calls with our members, and one of the questions I remember you got asked was how do I know what I should be posting, how do I know what content is relevant to my audience, what do they want to hear about? And you just took a long pause and said ask them. And it's like everyone, you could see the penny drop. Oh my god. Yeah, I should probably ask people what they want to hear about well it is.

Speaker 3: 23:54

I mean that's right. But also as well, they want you to come. I mean great consultants come with ideas and and insights and knowledge as well. So it is ask them. But I think you've got to ask them in a way where you've got to have really structured strategic conversations to elicit, in a way where you've got to have really structured strategic conversations to elicit that information out. If you say to them what content should I write about, Then they're probably going to go. I don't know Salary surveys. Maybe You're going to get a generic answer.

Speaker 1: 24:21

But if you ask them in a meaningful, smart way, with the right questions, then you will get what you want full, smart way, with the right questions and you will get what you want and and what that journey of what you know. What happened, um, there, you know, is it leads me nicely on to be able to talk about how this all fits together and what kind of we're going to be doing in in the piece, um, which is that bit where she carried out that diagnostic with that brand new customer and then pitched to her and closed it on the call and had the agreement signed for a retained project, not just getting the opportunity to send CVs but to actually complete a project that was paid on a portion of it, a large portion of it, on commencement, and that's what we're going to be sharing in our masterclass. We're going to be sharing in our masterclass. We're going to be sharing how to do exactly what she just did.

Speaker 1: 25:12

Basically, it's going to be a masterclass in that process of being able to diagnose, pitch and close, overcome objections and win the project with a brand new client. So it's a lot to cover in our short space of time. So the people that are coming to see us are in for a treat. Um, all of these things will change the game for you and bring like your fresh brain and a big pad of paper and be ready to like get stuck in, because we're going to make it interactive and we're going to be doing like interactive objection handling, for example, with the audience. So it's going to be a lot of fun as well you guys are the same attraction.

Speaker 5: 25:50

We're just piggybacking off you but there's so much feedback from our clients that we've been working with the last few years. Everyone that's worked with you is they are spot on. It is not fluffy, it's very practical, but it's so rooted in experience and delivered so well that everyone that I know that has come through what you guys do is like they're spot on it's such a good, thank you stop

Speaker 5: 26:21

it? No, but it genuinely is. But I know so many people that I'm very close friends with and are in our membership community. They're like, they're just amazing, but they're very, very consistent with what they do. They know what they do, they don't deviate. It's very consistent and there's a community of other people, which is so important and we get like emails all the time.

Speaker 1: 26:43

We've had I don't know two or three, even in the last few days, um, you know, from Friday to today, saying I watched your uh session on pitching. I went and had a go and I won my first project. I listened to your podcast and the advice you gave and I've just put it in place and I've won a project. So people will win retained work just from coming to the masterclass well, well, I think.

Speaker 1: 27:05

I think our intention for the masterclass is we're going to hold nothing back in terms of the pitch and they're even going to come away with a pitch deck, like we're going to give them the template and the tool for themselves.

Speaker 2: 27:18

So they definitely don't want to be missing out on that I've been kind of thinking do I want to be involved, or do I just want to pay my money and come as come as a guest and I'll just take notes?

Speaker 5: 27:27

it'll be so cool, I want to be involved or do? I just want to pay my money and come as a guest and I'll just take notes make sure we cover the costs.

Speaker 4: 27:35

All right, let's not give too big a discount here. And did I hear?

Speaker 1: 27:38

um, did I hear that before I jumped in, because I was just a few minutes behind um there was a golf conversation, kyle, happening before I joined this there was a bit of a golf conversation.

Speaker 4: 27:48

I think Jordan's actually invited me to come play golf in Dubai with him, so Kyle, you are more than welcome very nice.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Are you a bit of a golfer yourself?

Speaker 4: 28:01

I am. I must admit the offer to go to Dubai might be a little bit hard. I've just put three young boys to bed. Well, they've just walked past me, you might have seen me kind of looking out.

Speaker 1: 28:10

That's fine, you've got 12 hours, then get on the plane.

Speaker 4: 28:12

Yeah, just a quick, I'll leave over to Dubai time difference.

Speaker 2: 28:14

We should be sweet Kyle, just do what I'm doing sell it as a work trip. I mean when the wife sees me taking the golf clubs to the airport and she says thought it was a work trip, You're gone. Then it's too late.

Speaker 4: 28:27

It's called networking. Yeah, at least that's how it works.

Speaker 5: 28:31

I've just got the floodgates for me. Then going to the Maldives in a few weeks, we'll have to talk about that.

Speaker 4: 28:39

It's not the leaving part Jordan, that's the issue. It's when you come back, they're waiting for you.

Speaker 1: 28:45

Yeah. So, kyle, I've heard a lot about how incredible what you do is and how powerful it is for agency owners, but I don't know much about it, so can you share with us how you help agency owners?

Speaker 4: 29:02

Yeah for sure. It's actually funny when, as just said before, about how there's a lot of people, especially in decision making um positions in a lot of businesses, not just recruitment, um, they think that all these divisions of their, all the different sectors of their business, they're all very you know, they talk to each other and everyone likes to think they collaborate and, um, you know, they've all got a very nice um sort of culture inside the business. But when it comes to particular elements, it's like, oh, that's the sales team's problem, that's finance, that's operations, whatever it might be. And I think where we provide the most value when we talk to our clients and what we go through in this session is is effectively getting owners to understand their numbers or what, what the business is doing from a financial point of view, getting it in.

Speaker 4: 29:49

And I'm going to say it the most stupid way possible, because one the biggest problem that we come across with owners is they go oh, I've got cash in the bank or we made really good sales last quarter, but it's not really. They don't actually understand what's going on. And when everything's flying, not an issue, there's enough cash in the bank. You know people go, your problems are very much covered up by you just got lucky for a quarter or two. When the problems arise, it's being able to understand what's going on in you know, effectively, in your numbers, and then going to the right team and going well. This is the impact you're having on a particular element of the business.

Speaker 4: 30:28

This is how we need you to change what you're doing. And it's really funny when you said about that, that person on the call pitched, got you know effectively, did the whole process end to end. And the thing that I was most happy about and this is the thing that gets forgotten a lot in businesses and it kind of hurts and I don't think people understand the impact it has on businesses is they were able to get terms signed and they were able to get terms signed that the payment terms were in their benefit in. You know, on their side of things, they were able to get a lot of money up front effectively, which I think people forget about it.

Speaker 4: 31:04

People go sales is you know the whole business, and it is. It is you know we're not selling a. You know we don't have a shiny car to sell. The might sell itself and sales are so much you know it is effectively the whole business, but it's the other elements that are controllable by different areas of the business. They don't know they're actually controllable.

Speaker 4: 31:25

Um, that's the most important thing that owners will take away and be like, okay, well, uh, we've got a problem, say, with with our accounts receivable. Let's everyone. You know people don't pay on time. It's a very usual thing. Who's actually the people that are responsible to actually fix that problem? And invariably they go oh, it's finance. We need the accounts receivable person to make more phone calls to ring the clients and pester them to get them to pay. It's like, well, yeah, that's one strategy, but have you, have you actually spoken to your sales team about going? This is how important it is to get to get signed terms that are actually on that benefit us and not just whatever the client wants to get the sale over the line because of the impact it has on the broader business.

Speaker 4: 32:05

And once a lot of owners kind of open their mind up to like actually there's not an element in your financials that finance alone are responsible for effectively, they're the gatekeepers of all these elements and we will step through kind of the seven elements.

Speaker 4: 32:18

We'll break down a profit loss and balance sheet into things that I know everyone can understand and and I know that for a fact, I actually tried this out on my partner's father he is a farmer from country New South Wales and he goes why haven't people told me this? And I go there's a disconnect between accountants and, yes, we've got a stereotype for a reason. And business owners who go I need it in something that I can digest in two, three, four seconds. Otherwise there's just a bunch of numbers on the page and I don't get it and I can't actually action it to fix a problem in the business and he goes. If I knew that number, all I had to do is change my accounts receivable days by four days and get paid that slight bit quicker, and that would have fixed my cash problems. I would have done it 10 years ago bit quicker and that would have fixed my cash problems.

Speaker 4: 33:07

I would have done it 10 years ago, but unfortunately he wasn't aware of these really simple steps to go. Well, who in my business are the people that are actually impacting on the cold face and how do I actually flick that switch to get an effect as soon as possible? Because I've just left it to finance and, yeah, it's finances problem in a way, but it is the broader organization that will actually fix the holes in a business that should be doing really well and, on the face, that are doing really well, but they've got the operational problems on the back end to be like we're not doing as well as we should be well it makes me think of like a sieve.

Speaker 1: 33:40

You know, like you, even if you're putting all this really good like work in and you're winning projects and all the rest of it, but if there's holes and um gaps in in the knowledge and the timings and the the way that the finance is managed, then you're just fucking losing money like through the holes, aren't you?

Speaker 4: 34:00

yeah, it's, it's astounding, to be brutally honest people and because the focus is what people know. Invariably you go into business because you know a baker might go into business running a bakery because they're really good at baking bread. But do they know all the elements that go into running?

Speaker 5: 34:14

a business.

Speaker 4: 34:15

Invariably no, and you hope that they've got good advisors around them. Usually they don't, but we'll go through it.

Speaker 5: 34:25

You can't afford the advice but you can't afford the advisors at the start. That's typically the profile someone a high performer in an agency starts that on their own because they know they can do sales and great, that keeps you going for a year. But what happens when you actually don't have a financial grasp on what's happening in your business? And it's the exact same when it comes to other elements like marketing If it's not actually integrated and you don't understand it, it's just a little department on the side. You're not going to really get benefit from it. You're like yeah, we took money there, we took money into finance, we're the salespeople and we do everything.

Speaker 5: 35:08

So you know you're not running a business anymore. In that scenario You're just running a little sales team. You're hoping you make money because you don't have the financial clout and the understanding of what's happening with the integrated functions of your business to make your business work on a larger scale. You can run a small business, just you doing everything, but you can't when you're trying to grow.

Speaker 1: 35:28

I think that's the importance of finance you want to be in that room, don't you jord?

Speaker 2: 35:35

yeah, it's funny. I was gonna say, carl, do you think? Do you think people even know they have these, these holes in the sieve? Because so I'm, I'm the son, I'm the son of a finance director, right, and even though finance is not my strong point, I have this kind of real desire to understand it all. It's a conversation I've had with you lou isn't it about trying to find like a finance for non-finance directors, course type things, right?

Speaker 5: 35:58

and carl blake yeah, it's.

Speaker 4: 36:03

It's funny you ask that question because I have not met a business owner in the recruitment industry that hasn't sworn black and blue that they'll fix their cash problems by more sales. Everything is, if I make more sales, everything will be okay and it just. Yeah, it does a little bit. More sales is great, don't get me wrong. More quality sales is far, far more important. But usually when you fix the back end, they go. We didn't actually have to try any harder, we didn't actually have to slog out to them, we didn't have to go and work extra hours. We have to fix the holes in the sieve exactly how you said lou, and with that, operationally, we've now got a business that works for us and has value in it and and when people kind of open their eyes to that a little bit, they go.

Speaker 4: 36:47

it's not actually that hard. I just didn't understand what I was looking at and invariably that's the problem.

Speaker 2: 36:52

So if they come to our masterclass, we're going to plug the holes in the sieve and we're going to show them how to sell more.

Speaker 1: 36:57

Yeah, that's what I was just thinking. We're showing them how to stop it from like just calling out the box, like right from the very beginning, from the content creation through to the bd and the prospecting, the pitching and the closing, and then the fucking getting the damn money in the bank. So I want more.

Speaker 5: 37:15

Maybe that's what the day needs to be called something around this yeah, yeah, I wanted to share actually, oh sorry, dave, I was gonna say the other thing.

Speaker 3: 37:25

We need to remember that the 480 that we're charging, that's about five drinks in sydney, so it's an absolute bargain this is only the first draft, guys.

Speaker 1: 37:36

What? What do you think? So far, we've got some work to do. Um, or looking good. So, for those of you that are listening and not looking at the screen, um, I'm sharing the flyer which has just been designed by our amazing um claire brevitt this morning, and it says recruitment masterclass for high performers and leaders, presented by hume, scope, retrain, search, kbfc and brand me better um bringing together a group of industry experts for one day only you guys are literally flying in.

Speaker 3: 38:07

We are.

Speaker 1: 38:08

It's a once in a lifetime experience, recruitment training at its finest, and there are four one-hour in-depth sessions. The first is pitch closing and winning a masterclass in winning retained work with Jordan and I.

Speaker 2: 38:21

My wife always says that we look like a married couple.

Speaker 3: 38:26

I was just thinking the same thing, that I was like are they a couple?

Speaker 1: 38:30

I don't think we'll use that one for the actual flyer, but claire's not seeing what she could find this morning, and then mastering presence and persuasion in business development, with as con all the soft skills that nobody's ever taught um, and knowing your ideal customer better. Your title's so long, dave. I think we need to trim it down a little bit.

Speaker 1: 38:49

Knowing your ideal customer better than your competition, a masterclass on cutting through with your content and, last but not least, kyle Blake, understand your financials and maximize your cash for agency owners. And that's making sure that you don't hemorrhage the money through the holes. No matter how good your sales process is, there's no point doing any of it if you're going to let the money slip through the gaps. So fucking no-brainer. So it's the 15th of may, um 2024. Um, we're just about booking our tickets now um 9 till 3 pm and we're going to do some networking. Ie, you know, have some gin tonics afterwards. Um, um, that's going to be in the cbd in sydney we're not quite sure where. Yet claire's just working on venue. She needs a bit of help, actually, with that, as I don't know whether you can I?

Speaker 1: 39:38

yeah, I need to respond to her because I sent her one suggestion, yeah we need another suggestion or two, but we'll find somewhere on the street, if we have to um ticket price 480, which is an absolute bargain like I can't.

Speaker 5: 39:56

I can't imagine what it's actually worth, but it's a damn sight more than 480 quid 600 I reckon it's honestly, guys, seriously, one hour session with just hume scope for a training session is 500. I've been in one hour training sessions with blue actually not training session, but she gave me a freebie when I first met her and I was like holy shit, this is so good, I'd have had a great day. David, I've paid for your services when I first met you and it was not cheap. So I'm like bye baby and Kyle's experience that I did just it's so phenomenally, just experienced in terms of the knowledge in the room and I just personally think it's going to be something for all of us and I know we're all so motivated by just getting everyone in the room and I just personally think it's. It's going to be something for all of us and I know we're all so motivated by just getting everyone in a room and just going here's all of their knowledge that come and join us.

Speaker 1: 40:54

We'll have a great day, even if you don't live anywhere near Sydney, get yourself on a plane because it's still worth it, plus the cost of the ticket. Um, because not only that, but we're giving a massive um reduction as an early bird price. I mean, I kind of can't believe that we're even doing that. It seems crazy. Now, early bird price until the 12th of april is only 400, and you get not only all of those sessions but lunch. You get fed as well.

Speaker 3: 41:23

So that's that, um I don't know how to be on the shopping channel. That was brilliant was it they just don't get free.

Speaker 4: 41:34

So the steak knives if they uh sign up super early it can be arranged I mean if I'm not the one that's on the plane yeah no, we won't.

Speaker 1: 41:50

We're also going to be hanging out in uh, we're in at the rcsa um the week before in melbourne and we've got a few days, I think a day or two in melbourne and we've got a day or two in sydney the days before that. So if anybody wants to meet up with us, then we'd be delighted, because we're kicking around and we like meeting people, so we'll be putting that out on socials and timings to meet up with people too.

Speaker 5: 42:10

I can't wait, me too I cannot wait for a day in person I feel like the in-person conferences.

Speaker 5: 42:25

I'm just so stoked. I've wanted to do this for ages and when you and David reached out, I was like absolutely Just a full day of actual training, no sales involved. It's just come and join all these sessions. That will be super valuable, practical. I'm like hell, yeah, I want to join this in the 10 days go. Yeah, I want to learn about return, I want to learn about marketing, branding, I want to learn about sales and as an agency and I want to know how that all ties into how I need to manage the finances of the business to make good decisions. I'm like it's such a good day and you get to hang out with us.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yay, and we'll have a damn good time. So thank you so much. Thank you Dave, thank you Ez, thank you Kyle and thank you Jord. Thank you everyone for joining us. We can't wait. Stay tuned. We'll be releasing the tickets really soon. Lots of love.

Speaker 3: 43:22

Bye. Guys, Bye.

Speaker 1: 43:23

Bye guys, lots of love bye bye guys, bye bye Jordan well, that's another episode of Retrained Search, the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver Retained Search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom, and don't be shy. Connect with us on linkedin and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 43:56

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our Search Foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our Search Mastery Programme. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programmes to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back.