Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Hello everybody.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Hi, everyone Welcome.

Speaker 1: 0:23

Welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:26

To episode 15.

Speaker 1: 0:28

15. We know it's 15 because we checked.

Speaker 2: 0:33

I was telling someone. The other day I had a call with a prospective customer and he said to me download his podcast. He said I've added it to my playlist. That was very kind of you. And he said, hey, I've been talking about his podcasting. And I said to him yeah, he said I just feel like there's gotta be consistency, so like when I search for Retained Search on podcast or executive search, he said, like most of them have got like two episodes and they've not done an episode in 18 months or whatever I said, I'm sure I remember seeing somewhere that like 95% of podcasts fail or don't get to episode 20.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Yeah, five to go.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Five to go.

Speaker 2: 1:15

That's it, then. We're stopping. We're joking, we're not stopping. We're not stopping.

Speaker 1: 1:18

No way, I love it. It's great and we get chance to chat, which we do very often.

Speaker 2: 1:25

Yeah, this is like man of your one to one.

Speaker 1: 1:30

And I've only just got back from holidays not seen for ages.

Speaker 2: 1:33

I've just got back in there. I was all about the holiday. I want to know what.

Speaker 1: 1:37

I'm all about.

Speaker 2: 1:37

So I joined our team, called a bit late this morning and kind of cut the back end of it's really great.

Speaker 1: 1:43

So well, basically, I've just come back from Montana in North America, which was a place I never would have gone. I'm pretty sure I never would have gone if it wasn't for five of us that had was from there, had asked and said to me that we're coming to the UK a couple of years ago, and I'd said, well, come and see us. And ended up coming and staying with us, well, for a few days while they were here, which was awesome, and then they said, well, why don't you come and see us in Montana? And I thought, oh yeah, great, okay, I'll do that one day.

Speaker 2: 2:13

And then I thought you know what?

Speaker 1: 2:15

okay, I'm gonna go, we're gonna go. So talk, harry. We went to Montana. We did four days skiing in the most incredible resort called Big Sky. For anyone listening that knows that like where's that been all my life? It's changed my whole perception of skiing and now had a very happy skiing experience. And then we went for a few days and stayed with Jason and Tracy in Bozeman. It's like the only way I can describe it and I was saying to the team this morning is like other worlds, like and I know Iceland was a bit like that for us because we were a bit like that in Iceland that was a bit of the world that was a bit like moonscape type thing.

Speaker 1: 2:50

Yeah this is otherworldly in a different way, because it's so, everything's so big, the mountains are so big and I've spent a lot of time in the Alps, and this is like another, just different scale. And then the landscapes are so big and the sky is so big and the cars are so big and just everything's really big, right, and even the people.

Speaker 2: 3:15

It sounds like I should live in Montana.

Speaker 1: 3:17

It's amazing. Yeah, you love it.

Speaker 1: 3:18

Oh my god, you love it and Jordan's so big oh, gosh and um anyway, and and I said um, like even the people there's.

Speaker 1: 3:31

There's this sort of otherworldliness about the people and we were talking about it in the ski kind of group, the lessons that I was, uh, skiing in, and the skiing instructor said the thing about, because I said, the people here just seem like so kind of in a way like bigger than life, and he's like the thing about the people here is because they're so connected to nature, they believe in something greater than us, and so they've got this sort of aura, they've got this kind of calm, just amazing, like grounded assurance about them that is just like from another world, and so it's just it was.

Speaker 1: 4:13

The whole thing was incredible and it feels like I've come back and I thought while I was there I said to Harry, about three days in, it feels like we're in a dream. It feels like this isn't really happening and I've come back and I'm like it's like that. It's like did it really happen? It was so good. So, yeah, anyone that either lives there you're so lucky and anyone that gets the opportunity to go there apparently it is booming. Well, you can see is like it's getting really popular now with North Americans, and I can see why. So that's where I've been for a week.

Speaker 1: 4:41

And you've been well, I was gonna say holding the fort but killing it. Basically, well, I've been away, everything's really terrible.

Speaker 2: 4:48

We've done a lot. We've done a lot, yeah yeah, last week was intense, but exciting and really good, and our members are killing it too. Yeah, they have One of the advancements is we're going to Australia, aren't we?

Speaker 1: 5:03

Yes, I know I've been talking about going to Australia, haven't we both for ages? And I've never been and always wanted to go. And now, what's the plan?

Speaker 2: 5:15

We're gonna be there. What's the ninth of May, isn't it we're presenting? We've been very privileged to have been asked to present our CSA talent X conference in Melbourne on the ninth of May, which is very exciting. I got my swim shorts out and my flip flops ready and then I was told it's not gonna be that hot, but that's fine, that's cool. We're still excited to go. So yeah, we're gonna be there, I think for the hope. We haven't even decided how long we're gonna be there, but probably for the whole week and a thought.

Speaker 1: 5:42

So anyone listening in Australia we was yeah, come and see us, Come and see us, come and see us. But we're also gonna do an event of ourselves. I think we should do it in Sydney first half of that week.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Yes, yes, With our very good friend and former podcast guest, Mr David Wollstone-Helm.

Speaker 1: 6:04

Dave Wollstone-Helm we're gonna do a personal branding, worked and retain search workshop of some description and it's gonna be the like sixth or seventh of June in Sydney. There, you heard it here first. No one else knows this in the public domain, so we'll be pushing it out soon to let you know how to get tickets and how to come and see us. Yeah, it's very exciting. And the other exciting thing that's been happening while I've been away is we've just been, I've just been collating all the wins that have been happening while I've been on Loads of them, so many, oh my.

Speaker 1: 6:37

God Like what is going on.

Speaker 2: 6:44

Well, I think the market's picking up I do, but also the knowledge, the confidence, the capability of our members is picking up and increasing and they're seeing they can do it once and they're doing it again and again and again. I love this one.

Speaker 1: 7:03

I mean, these are new to me, so I'll read them out and then you can give us some context. Second win for those of you that aren't watching on the screen and listening it says existing client. It's a low level role, so there's an indicator that it doesn't need to be senior because it doesn't but a tricky one to fill, possibly for multiple vacancies within the group, and I want to get this across the line. My first retained is moving to second stage, with three candidates going back in Nice and the second invoice is sent out. Crikey, this is very different. I love the ending.

Speaker 2: 7:40

So this is the Crikey. This is very different. This is Alan, who a few weeks ago won his first one, but I've got smack that I've won it. He likes the little one line of sign offs. Yeah, he's doing so. I saw his pitch actually a couple of days ago and I mean this in the nicest possible way to Alan, right, but I'm saying it more as a motivation to all of you listening. It wasn't very good, isn't even like anywhere near as good as it will be, yeah, but it's got an amazing job right In such a short space of time to get that pitch to where it's at already, yeah, but like it's going to be so much better in two weeks time and he's already really interested.

Speaker 1: 8:23

It is motivation for those people and he's won two retains, I mean we say, don't we?

Speaker 2: 8:26

often the bar is set bloody low. Like most people out there, pitching, retain, winging it are doing a really bad, bloody job. Don't hope yet.

Speaker 1: 8:38

All you need to do is a little bit better than them.

Speaker 2: 8:40

Yeah, the people I've spoke to that have said, yeah, I've got the pitch nailed down. And I go, oh really, tell me more. And they say, well, I'd have to say to them if you want me to commit, you've got to commit.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Oh, bingo. Yeah, I mean, if it was. Ah, there we go, boom Take my money, I know yeah. Well, it's like they say in tennis, like we had proper tennis coaching a few weeks ago, but you heard of Skopsky doubles.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Yeah, so yes, I have. I was playing on the court next to the Skopsky brothers about six weeks ago.

Speaker 1: 9:17

No, and did you know? Yeah, so what's the story of these? So my doubles partner last year true story.

Speaker 2: 9:20

this Isn't this one. They all just stumbled across this. What Growing up was Neil Skopsky's double partner? What when he got ditched?

Speaker 1: 9:30

Yeah, he just he doesn't play much tennis.

Speaker 2: 9:34

He's one of them people now who plays like One's every six months and he's just insanely good, but when he was growing up he was like a superstar alongside the Skopsky's. So, yeah, I know who they are. I do.

Speaker 1: 9:45

He's from the Skopsky's coach one of the Skopsky coaches Right and he came and he teaches the system they use, which isn't basically isn't side-by-side Right. Ok, it's front and back, so one's a sweeper at the back and the other's in the middle at the net. So it's really different from what we've been talking about. So it was really good. I loved it because I like new things and I like experimenting with change, as do you. We're both very similar in that. Anyway, why am I talking about tennis? Oh, I know, it's because he said partway through and it's just, it's not stopped resonating with me you don't have to win all the points, you just have to win more than them.

Speaker 2: 10:25

Yeah, and.

Speaker 1: 10:26

I'm like no way. That means it's made every match of play, since it's made me feel so much it doesn't matter if I lose that All I need to do is win more than them, and it's a bit like this you don't have to be perfect, you just have to be fucking better than those that are out there at the moment.

Speaker 2: 10:39

But that depends, doesn't it? Because if you can use that in a positive way or you could do what I do, come off court going fucking hell, I've got beat again. I don't even need to win every point, I just need to win more.

Speaker 1: 10:52

I can't even do that. No, no, no, it didn't. That's not what it did for me, it was good for me. And here's another one, a nice email. Hey, louise and Claire, I hope you both keep in well. I just thought I'd share with you a success story so far. Me and my colleague finished your course with the team, I believe at the beginning of September, so pretty much five months this week, and with a Christmas and New Year in between. To date, we have secured 14 retained projects between us with an estimated value of around £140,000. Wow, we knew our market would respond rather well, but we did not expect things to be this good, hoping to be fully retained by the end of the year, fingers crossed. I'd just like to say a massive thank you to your both. Your course Rocks, which it does.

Speaker 2: 11:40

Yeah, that was amretta thing, wasn't it?

Speaker 1: 11:42

Thank you very much sir, that is very kind of you.

Speaker 2: 11:45

Yeah, and well done. Well done to both.

Speaker 1: 11:46

And well bloodied on.

Speaker 2: 11:48

Yeah, really yes.

Speaker 1: 11:50

Here's a little short and sweet one isn't there.

Speaker 2: 11:53

Yeah well, it isn't short and sweet, but there's a few wins in here. So yeah, won a retainer today for a multi hire, flexed on the payment stages. That's fine, Starting in two weeks. I've also got a proposal meeting on Friday and a pitch tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Yeah, and Emma was 100% contingent. Never even thought about retained when we first met her. So that's incredible and so I'm going to go on methodology and mindset. I like that. I like the title of this one and iteration she says I think it's a sheet.

Speaker 2: 12:27

It is, it's Gemma.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Hey guys, just a shout out. I only did that pitch coaching session with me the other day.

Speaker 2: 12:34

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:36

Yeah For forcing me to change the narrative to a more just a shout out. So big thanks to the team for forcing me to change the narrative to a more just a shout out. I'm going to go on a chat with my clients. Oh yes, my first opportunity this year on a call, and the client agreed that the retained was the best method for this hire. Hallelujah. For me, this is a 100% mindset shift and you simply cannot do this alone. Well, I mean, some people do, but it takes them a while. Usually.

Speaker 2: 13:09

I think we help a lot of people get there quicker, so I was saying yeah, we do, we help me get there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:17

There's a big. She says I may not have mastered how to share my zoom screen. Yeah, she couldn't do it. It took us ages. And there's another one, like it doesn't have to be perfect. She's not there yet. They've only been doing this for like three weeks, something like that. But I've learned some amazing ways of framing my discussion. So even by just reframing the discussion, the clients agreed that retained is the best route.

Speaker 2: 13:39

That's a nice point. I know, I know I'm going off on a tangent here, right, but we often talk about things that we've been helping people with, and one of the things I help people with this week just in a pitch coaching session was just helping them relax into it and just be human. Yeah, and actually like struggling to share your zoom screen is not an issue, you're human. It's absolutely cool. The client sits at the side, probably thinking oh shit, yeah, I'm really bad at this too.

Speaker 1: 14:07

I can never share my zoom screen Exactly and another one when from a marketing document, and we're seeing this more and more. The more work that Sarah does with her digital marketing course, which is in beta mode, by the way. It's not available publicly yet, only available to mastermind members, but the more she does and the more she supports with the digital marketing, the more wins we see come from it. Hi everyone, a few months back I started sending out marketing documents and case studies to target prospects. These include industry news, recent assignments and candidates. One client came back to one I sent asking for more information, which I shared. They had a role but didn't want a full search completing. They did, however, want to meet the candidate who was a managing director. Three successful meetings they moved to offer last week with the candidate accepted and has resulted in my biggest feat ever If you aren't sending out relevant content. And the way that we position spec CDs for retained is slightly different from the way that you would spec in contingently and it works beautifully.

Speaker 2: 15:06

Really well.

Speaker 1: 15:07

She says don't give up Another one new client and search. I'm so happy that I picked up a new VP of operations. I don't know who this is.

Speaker 2: 15:15

It's Louise.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Oh, I'm so happy. It's a new VP of operations search for a new client. They signed on Friday. I received payment today to start the search, so you know what I was doing this evening Searched 300 and profiles on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2: 15:29

To confirm not all of us must be something in the name.

Speaker 1: 15:34

Yeah, another one, first ever retainer one Just wanted to share. Ever retainer with a new client feeling chuffed. Who's that? I?

Speaker 2: 15:45

would add to that a Sophia Sophia, yes. Top of my head 14, 15 months experience of recruitment.

Speaker 1: 15:54

Yes, very new Something like that.

Speaker 2: 15:57

Relatively green right. Like you can do this, you really can.

Speaker 1: 16:01

Yeah, you can. I'm finally retrained. My best 2023 initiative Happy new year. This course was my top 2023 decision. In September, I was looking at a blank slate and then I met Jordan. Fast forward, fast forward five months. On January the 4th, I executed my first retained search contract. The project plan is on track. We will confirm our candidate shortlist next week and, yes, that I confirmed bookings for the MD and division director, so flying to Boston for face to face interviews on the shortlisted candidates. We are looking forward to having a contracted candidate on before the March the 1st. Thank you to the retrained team and my co-walt members.

Speaker 2: 16:40

So nice. So that is a nice welcome back from Holodag Very excited.

Speaker 1: 16:48

So what have you been helping people with recently? Jordan Well, I've been away.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Jordan, has been a lot of talk the last week around diagnostics and it's a massive, massive shift, not just for the consultant on our side of the fence right or the business owner or the leader or whatever it might be, but also for the customer. So one of our members was telling me yesterday he's really, really put focus on trying to enter a diagnostic conversation with the client, and what I mean by that for anyone listening is a real pain discovery, understanding their challenge, understanding their needs, what's going on and he said the challenge he faces the customer keeps trying to drag him back into a briefing call. The customer keeps saying things like, yeah, okay, I get that, but can we not let me tell you where they need to be based on what the salary is? Yeah, it's a mindset shift, I think.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Firstly, yeah, but also you always say, you always say you have a really good sentence for this to say Well, tell me what it is, because I was yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:04

So I got to this because they were trying to drag me into briefing calls and also I was asking some bigger questions and I could almost hear them thinking why is he asking me that? Nobody else ever asks me that.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Yeah, yeah, no, that's fucking. So what I?

Speaker 2: 18:18

started doing is setting up the conversation by saying we work with our clients in different ways depending on the circumstance. First, let me reassure you. We can absolutely help you with it. I want to and will help you with it, but it's imperative that I recommend the right solution to solve the specific challenge you face.

Speaker 1: 18:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:38

So we'll have time for the nitty-gritty stuff about the actual position, but first I need to understand more about what's been done in it so far. What needs to happen? What do you need to achieve? When do you need to achieve it? By why? Yeah, to ensure that the solution we recommend is the right one.

Speaker 1: 18:55

And, importantly, what methods have they used before and how effective have they been? Yeah, yeah, I agree. It is a constant work to move from a contingent order, taking mentality, into a consultative position, and the diagnostic is like.

Speaker 2: 19:14

The first is the starting point of that, yeah, and it's interesting because the member In question, when I'm talking about one of his colleagues, was on the call too and he kind of challenged it a little bit and said well, can't we just do the briefing call and then pitch? And I said firstly, how do you pitch without doing the diagnostic Right, like how do you know that retain is the right solution to the problem without doing it? So firstly, that makes it difficult, but secondly, I think you've got to break the cycle for the customer, not just for you. You've got to get the customer viewing things differently and thinking about things in a different way. And if you take them down the same route, they always go down. If you go straight into a briefing call, they're not going to look at this challenge in any different way than they normally do.

Speaker 1: 20:05

Yeah, I agree, and we're constantly working on that, to change mindset and then behavior. What have I been helping people with? We were talking about it before, weren't we? Yeah, because I'm such a pro now.

Speaker 2: 20:21

Yeah, well. Yeah, I'm passing out Be careful, because I'll be taking us all to Chill Factor near the Trafford Centre for our next team building day.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Do you ski?

Speaker 2: 20:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:31

Do you yeah, yeah, ok.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah, I mean I'm not great. I mean, as you know, I do suffer with overconfidence at times but I'll be honest about skiing. I can ski reds-ish. Oh, that's pretty good. But if it's tough. Yeah, I'm a parallel skier. Yeah, a parallel skier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I'm self-taught and it frustrates me because my wife is a brilliant skier and it infuriates me.

Speaker 2: 21:02

And every time she's been going since she was a baby and been in ski school every time and every time she goes. Can't you just be happy with me that I'm good at something and I'm like absolutely not? No, it infuriates me.

Speaker 1: 21:16

I don't know whether I would be a better skier than you no, I'm a better skier?

Speaker 2: 21:19

Oh, probably. Yeah, I've got a WES.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Anyway, that's not what I've been helping people with. I've been helping people with in the few days that I've been back Basically with like well, you put it quite well, didn't you? Because there was a guy I went out with that you knew you'd worked with and I went out to see a client with him and he'd been historically doing kind of mid-level engineering hires. It was quite a big retail organization. We went out to their warehouse in like some you know industrial estate and we sat in this reception and having a chat with VP of HR or HRD something like that, and there was loads of difficult positions and we weren't doing well on them on a contingent basis.

Speaker 1: 22:09

We needed to get retainers to be able to solve them and that's why I was there to help him get the retainer. But in the pitch I explained that you know for easy to fail, straightforward, everyday positions were happy working on a contingent basis. No win, no fin. It works perfectly well in those situations, right. But if it's niche, if it's challenging, if it's in any way complex or confidential or more difficult or the contingent model's fallen over, then we instead apply a retain methodology. Right, that's our headhunting service.

Speaker 1: 22:39

And then I said and for some of our clients that are making executive and senior appointments, we apply a full executive search process and that includes formal referencing and behaviour profiling and face-to-face interviewing. And he went wait a minute, I didn't know that you did executive positions. And the guy sat with me was like oh my God. And then he went. So what do you deal with? A confidential executive hire? And I said yeah, that's quite often the case with executive positions. It's quite often sensitive and needs to be done discreetly. Oh, that's a relief, because I need an expert in this field. But I didn't know. You worked at that level and I've got a confidential ops director position that I need to talk to you about and we do that now, or shall I let you finish? And there's no way in this world that he would have said that if we hadn't have actually said and you said earlier, like someone had asked you like how I want to do more executive work, I do that.

Speaker 2: 23:39

Well, and I'd said to them OK, do you tell people you do that he was like no, no, no. Probably a good time. It's funny, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 23:49

Yeah, so I mean, but we do things all the time like we've just been solving a problem in our business and we're like and we've solved it while we're in the middle of solving it and we're like, why didn't we do that before? Why didn't we think of that before? And it's frustrating, but some of the best solutions are the ones we thought we would.

Speaker 2: 24:05

We share a coach, don't we? And I was speaking to Rebecca about this yesterday and I was saying it's a bit frustrated, but I looked back and think we probably should have done this six months ago or sorry, she'd shout at me for that week. Here's what we could do. Yeah, not sure what we could do, right? And she said but you need to reframe it and just think you did the best you could with the thinking you had at that time, absolutely Like we thought, oh, we could do this and we thought now, let's leave it. We just didn't have the thinking at that time, right, that's cool.

Speaker 1: 24:39

We've got the team. Now we're a stronger team. We've got that. We've got that system for solving problems.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Yeah, we have the EOS model for anyone that doesn't hear a rave about. That is what has led us to solve this problem, but that's another conversation, and so, yes, if you want to do executive work, then explain to your clients that you do do it as part of the way that you work. That's what I've been helping people with recently, and then that moves us to some controversy. We've been noticing a bit of a theme about something that's a bit sensitive, but there's a few people like shouting about how.

Speaker 2: 25:19

You're more sensitive than me. Shit, retained search coaches.

Speaker 1: 25:24

I'll say it Okay, all right, well, that said, good, glad you've said that, so that's what. But they look like they're really good, or they tell people they're really good and they're bragging about it all over LinkedIn and all that kind of stuff and they sell the dream. But we've been getting the people that have been working with those people and then ended up in not a brilliant place, haven't we?

Speaker 2: 25:50

We've even had one, didn't we a few weeks ago and I know that we talked about this in another podcast, I don't think we have who asked to speak to a couple of existing customers for another trainer and was told no unless you commit to us, which just blows my mind. Someone wants to do the due diligence. They should do that. We encourage it. I'm not saying whether it's also whether it's somebody else you choose to be trained by. That's cool. All I'm saying is, if you want to speak to any of our members, we encourage it. And other people, other trainers they should do exactly the same thing.

Speaker 1: 26:28

Yeah, we do. We're constantly putting people in touch with existing members, previous customers, just to check out and do their due diligence. It's so important. So to be told that they're not allowed to do that unless they pay for the course is nonsensical. So, yeah, don't let anyone like fob you off with that. But this is a bit different, isn't it? Because what we've ended up with is we've ended up having conversations with people and I have, and you have, and it's cropped up several times now that it's kind of becoming something that we want to talk about that have invested time, money, energy, effort, headspace. The opportunity cost of that's horrible to think about, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 27:12

Hope is a big one, right Like they are. So what's the word cautious? Maybe because of the poor experience?

Speaker 1: 27:26

And they've been basically ended up with nothing, haven't they? I mean, you said it before, when we were talking, like this one guy you'd spoken to recently and said, like he literally got nothing, nothing from it. Are you going to actually teach me how to win retainers?

Speaker 2: 27:46

That was what he said to me. He said listen, this is what I'd have a nice time, and nothing from it. Like, are you actually going to teach me how to do it though?

Speaker 1: 27:55

Like, what else would we be doing?

Speaker 2: 27:58

Yes, and you're actually going to show me yes we are. I'm thinking is this a loaded question? Yes, and it's a training course. Yes, and you'll help me.

Speaker 1: 28:17

Yes, great that's exactly what I want. Okay, so funny, yeah. And someone else I spoke to said one of the thing that he'd done had ended up telling him he needed to eat healthily and he needed to meditate in the mornings and he needed to. And he was like, fuck sake, man, this is not helping me when retainers. It is not helping me convert my contingent work to retained.

Speaker 2: 28:47

With his so proudly with a six pack sticking out because he's eating healthily.

Speaker 1: 28:51

This is very zen brain and I also said that when he said this is a crock of shit, he gave me money back. The guy tried to take him to court, like threatened him with legal action. So he didn't. Not only did not get his money back, he got a whole host of horrible, horrible letters when he tried to feed back, just feed back about the cause, to say that it wasn't what he wanted or expected. So, yeah, beware please, all of you.

Speaker 1: 29:20

So we want to finish with mindset, because that's what we do, a little minute on mindset. And we wanted to leave you today with something that came up on another podcast actually, because I recorded a podcast yesterday and the guys were asking me about which? Watch this space, watch the LinkedIn, because it'll be out soon. And we're asking me. We're saying their audience is basically not most of them not working on a retained basis but would like to be, and a lot of them struggling with it and not managing to get there. And when they were asking like, what is the biggest difference? Can you explain the biggest difference between retained and contingent? And they've asked lots of different people that question and got different answers and that's why they wanted a clear answer, and the answer for me, for us, is retain searches, the financial commitment from a client that allows you to put in place a robust process and commit to working with them until you reach a result.

Speaker 1: 30:34

And that's not to say that the contingent model isn't effective or doesn't have a place, because it does, because in many cases the contingent model works just fine. If it's low level, if it's easy to fail, if there's loads of talent available, in lots and lots of lots of cases it works perfectly well. But in a lot of situations it doesn't. If it's niche, if it's challenging location, if it's confidential, if it's in any way more complex and the contingent models fallen over, then it's necessary to put in place a more rigorous process and commit to working with the client until we reach a result.

Speaker 2: 31:10

But not just any result, though.

Speaker 1: 31:12

The best result that is available to us all in the market at this time, and that was pretty revolutionary for them. They were like, oh my God say that again.

Speaker 1: 31:26

So did, and then they were like God, that's so much clearer, like it's a solution to the problems that the contingent model doesn't solve. There you go. So suddenly things start to look a bit different. When you're looking at problems, problematic hires, difficult vacancies instead of looking for the newest job, first flip it around, look at the oldest. That's the kind of shift in thinking for retained. And yes, there's a whole executive world. Yes, there's a whole retained search world. And yes, there's executive solutions and mapping and pipelining. But to begin with, all it needs to be is a solution to the problems that the contingent model doesn't solve, and then the rest of it starts to open up from there.

Speaker 2: 32:06

Yeah, just learn to put your skis on first, yeah, and then you'll start skiing down the mountain.

Speaker 1: 32:13

We can help you parallel. Yeah, All right, Thank you, Jordan. Thank you everybody for listening.

Speaker 2: 32:20

Thanks Lou.

Speaker 1: 32:21

See you in episode 16, everyone.

Speaker 1: 32:24

Well, that's another episode of Retrained Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode, send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is. We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community.

Speaker 1: 33:05

If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our search foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our search mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with an.