Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work retained, discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Hello, hey hello.

Speaker 3: 0:24

Happy New Year, hey Jordan.

Speaker 1: 0:26

Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you, too, and hey, jess, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 2: 0:30

You bet Glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:33

We're going to come to you in just a moment. Welcome everyone who is listening, and I think there are a few more of you now, as we started to learn, we might need to double-figure. Nice. Welcome to episode 12 of the Retrained Search podcast, the. Retrained Search podcast. Still quite haven't got the title, never mind.

Speaker 3: 0:58

Our New Year's resolution is by the end of 2024. We actually want to know what the podcast is called. Yeah, that'd be good, wouldn't?

Speaker 1: 1:06

it, yeah, to be able to actually get that right, that would be good. Anyway, yeah, welcome everyone and welcome to 2024. How are you doing, jordan? I'm all right, back at work.

Speaker 3: 1:17

I'm happy to be back in the seat after Christmas. I love Christmas, it's nice, but I'm a fan of routine. You know, that period in between Christmas and New Year where kind of no one knows what day it is and no one quite knows when they're going back to work, stresses me out, stresses me out and stuff. So I'm glad to be back in the seat.

Speaker 1: 1:39

Jess probably knows why that stresses you out.

Speaker 3: 1:42

Yeah, yeah, jess probably does that. Well, what is that?

Speaker 1: 1:44

Good note, Jess.

Speaker 2: 1:47

He's a man of action. When things get like, when you get stuck, it's painful, like put the man in traffic and he's like losing his mind.

Speaker 3: 1:55

Yeah, Absolutely yeah. Jess knows me better than anybody else that I've ever met in my life, including my family. Will come on to why.

Speaker 1: 2:07

Why in a minute? Yeah, we will yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:09

Yeah, but how was your Christmas?

Speaker 1: 2:12

It was good. I did very, very, very little. I went on holidays before Christmas to Morocco, which was fantastic, and saw Marrakesh never been there before. Have you ever been? Never been, george.

Speaker 3: 2:27

No, I've never been. No, I think the only place I've ever been kind of over in that direction is Dubai.

Speaker 1: 2:35

Have you been Jess? No, never, Never. Yeah, it's really incredible, actually Incredible, really full on. We kind of dipped out the resort, had a day in Marrakesh and then went. That was amazing, but let's get out of here and like chill out again. It was a really really amazing. The soups, the Medina, like snake charmers and incredible, Absolutely amazing, Really good yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:01

And then had a kind of the vision I have of it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:05

I remember going to Egypt years ago and not everyone says oh yeah, and they try and buy your wife off for camels and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, of course they do. I think you go oh my God, they actually try and buy your wife off for camels.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Yeah, they actually do. Yeah, it was good. It's nice to be back. It's so nice to be back with the team and like that's unit with everybody and just remembering like the big hug that you feel when you're back in the fold with everybody. And I can't wait to see everyone because we've got our 90 day meeting tomorrow In fact, and we're all getting together face to face to do our quarterly meeting because we use the EOS operating model, which we love, and I can't wait for that. And it's been amazing start to the year, hasn't it Like? I mean, it was a tough year last year for a lot of people and a lot of people said to me they had the hardest year that they've had, sometimes for ever, and some people, you know, just in the last kind of five to 10 years. And this year started a bit differently, hasn't it, jord?

Speaker 3: 4:09

Yeah, yeah, it has seems really really positive. I think everyone we speak to our members, the people I'm speaking to that are interested in joining us they're all really really positive, really positive about the market, what they're seeing, the conversations they have with customers. So after what for a lot of people was I'm not going to say a shit year, but it was a tough year, tougher than the couple of years previous. Hopefully things are starting to move in the right direction again this year.

Speaker 1: 4:39

Are you busy at the moment, Jess?

Speaker 2: 4:41

Yeah, we actually. I came back to two projects we got awarded after the break. I opened my email and two to my forward with. So yeah, we're ready to grow. We're looking to bring on another recruiter this first.

Speaker 1: 4:53

Nice, Nice exciting time.

Speaker 3: 4:55

I love it.

Speaker 1: 4:56

I love it, man Exciting times.

Speaker 3: 4:58

Yeah, that leads us nicely into, I suppose, probably the wins of the week, right, lou? While you bring them up, though, I've got to tell you to point out yours this year. So I'm a big football fan. You guys will call it soccer, right? And yesterday we went out for lunch meeting a couple of the guys from the team and my password. I want to tell you exactly what my password is, but for, like, most of my stuff references my favorite player for Liverpool, who I'm a fan of, and we walked into this restaurant, sat down and he was sitting on the table next to me and I was going to the team. No, you always say who's this Virgil guy? I was like that's him. Him, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never really understood what your. Why your password?

Speaker 1: 5:41

was that, and I mean, I don't know who the guy is, but you were quite excited. Kirsty was quite excited as well. I'm sure you have is listening. Yeah, just go through the Liverpool team one to 20 and try a different combination.

Speaker 3: 5:52

You'll probably find one of my passwords, just your banking password too.

Speaker 2: 6:01

Yeah, exactly, you're not going to get much out of that, jess.

Speaker 3: 6:05

You can have it, especially after Christmas, especially after Christmas with a baby that needs trainers.

Speaker 1: 6:11

Yeah, she's got lots of trainers.

Speaker 3: 6:13

Yeah, she can't even wear them yet. Oh, she's so cute, she's so adorable.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Myself and my daughter had to go and see her. My daughter ever had to go to the gym. I don't see her. My daughter, emily, was craving some baby time so we had to go all the way over to Wellington to see Jordan as baby. It was lovely.

Speaker 1: 6:32

Yes it does lead us nicely in. There's been some nice, nice, lovely green shoots as a start to the year. Here is one of them. This is Tom, and I've learned now to read them out. For those that don't watch the video and listen instead, he says Hi Lou, hope you had an amazing Christmas and New Year. Quick update from me we had a great 2023, our biggest turnover of business to date and all retained, and this was a firm that was fully contingent when they came to us, so they've gone 100% retained. Since then, we signed off on four 100k plus searches with new and existing clients. We produced an updated capability deck which he attaches to share and says we can share that with our members, which we have done, which we use to discuss with our clients via teams. Should we not be able to see them face to face? Here's to a bigger 2024. And he says All the best to the retrain team for this year. Keep smashing it.

Speaker 3: 7:36

So I love about that. Every time I speak to someone that's looking to join us, I always try and kind of understand where are you trying to get to with it? Yeah, what's the end goal? And honestly they almost always say, oh well, I'd love to be 100% retained. But, realistically speaking, if I could be 50% retained and it's like they don't think it's possible to be 100% retained, normally after about two months that mindset's changed and they're like yeah, I'm never working contingently every year.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Yeah, that's it, that was exactly it. Oh yeah, this is Brett, isn't it? Yeah, oh, this is really nice. He says the title is in a difficult. It's been a difficult space. It's been hit was hit very hard last year was it.

Speaker 1: 8:22

Yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was it was it was, it was, it was, it was, it was it was it was it was, it was it was it was Of trying one my first true retainer with a well-funded start-up in the AI space for a CTO role.

Speaker 3: 8:47

Nice role.

Speaker 1: 8:48

Really nice project. It comes with the promise of a head of engineering and head of product to follow, which is even nicer, isn't it? So I just wanted to share and say thank you to Lolooka and the team, as I never would have felt comfortable pitching retailers without this course and the community. So true, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 9:07

So many people say the course is great, but the community is what really makes it magic, because they don't say there were times when I started to doubt if it was as much of a market for this as I thought. And then seeing people like and I've anonymized that just to protect their privacy and many mentions one of the members and others share their success stories, gave me hope to keep going, so I'm hoping this post does the same for everyone else that are still working on winning their first. Sorry, george, I cut you off then.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Turned out what I was going to say now. Oh yeah, I was going to say that the community is a massive part of it, right, because it some people win the first retainer really, really quickly.

Speaker 3: 9:53

Yeah it can happen in the first couple of weeks and sometimes it can take six months, but, like seeing other people similar winning shows and that it's possible, gives them the motivation to keep going, and I suppose, in a way, that's the reason we share these at the start of every podcast right, to keep all of you guys going as well and to show you that it's possible and that you can do it.

Speaker 1: 10:14

Exactly. And all these people are in different parts of the world, they're all in different spaces, all in different industries. Oh, this is a nice one from Lucy. It's titled win exclamation mark. Exclamation mark first retainer of 2024 won. All of this is happening this year, by the way, and we're what? Week one, first week back in January and also the first new client retainer I've won in a while. It's been mostly repeat business at the end of 2023. So I'm super happy. And, lastly, new year win. Happy new year everyone. Hope you have a good one. My first day back today and I've got six searches signed off this morning with one client, great starts 2024. My VA is putting together my confirmation as brief as we speak, and so those of you out there that maybe a little bit slow off the blocks that there is retained work out there and that was the purpose of sharing those with you. There's a nice, lovely flurry of activity to start the year and hopefully that's the sign of things to come.

Speaker 3: 11:22

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 11:23

So, without further ado, I'd like to come to you, just because we're so happy to have you here, and thank you for taking your precious time up to come and see us. You have had an unconventional arrival at the search world. Haven't you Tell us a little bit about your journey, if you will?

Speaker 2: 11:46

Yeah, to say the least. So I tell you, it starts way back. I grew up in a blue collar family, and I say blue collar because my dad was electrician, my grandfather was electrician and I have an uncle who was a plumber, cousins that are plumbers, and I like to say I'm the white sheep of the family. I started my first business right out of high school, you know, but I knew nothing about managing people. The uncle that he was promoted to foreman and then the first day on the job, at the end of the day he fired anybody that wasn't dirty because he was the plumber and he figured if they weren't dirty it must not have worked that day, you know. So that's kind of the mentality that I grew up in in terms of people and managing people. So I started contracting business. I was in 1993. And you know I'm driven, I'm going to rule the world, you know.

Speaker 2: 12:35

But turnover was just rampant, like if I had an office manager that lasted more than 90 days, like my team considered it success, you know. So I had a in a network similar to retrain search, actually in a network and heard this consultant speak and he was a professional behavioral analyst and he's talking about, you know, aligning people's behaviors and values to what the job rewards. Something like this is great. So I go up to him afterwards and I said listen, I need your help. He said what's that? I said you got to help me stop hiring stupid people. And he goes what are you talking about? I'm like, look, if I can do that, I'm going to be like a millionaire, you know. And he goes all right, I want you to take the survey and then let's chat.

Speaker 2: 13:14

And back then we had to fill it out with pencil and paper and fax it in so I get on the phone with them afterwards. And I said, okay, well, you know what do I do? Because I'm like Jordan, I'm an action kind of guy, you know, I want to know what to do. And he goes well, the first thing you do is you go home and apologize to your wife, like what are you talking about? And he goes you're a meat grinder man and, as cliche as it sounds. I didn't understand that people didn't think like me and I tried to force them to do it the way I wanted it done, to see it the way that I wanted to do it, and I just set people up for failure. I would hire people just like me and then ask them to do the things that I didn't like doing, thinking like maybe they would.

Speaker 3: 13:53

So it kind of turned my life around, turned my business around.

Speaker 2: 13:57

We were able to reduce turnover. I really grew the business. In fact, the office manager I have now has been with me a little over nine years, you know. So I did figure it out and not a success.

Speaker 3: 14:08

Yeah well.

Speaker 2: 14:09

The wife didn't fare so well. So, you know, but, but I did, I did learn, I got it in action, you know. So hopefully this time I'm I'm going to take what I learned and do better, but but at any rate. So I got through the, the contract and business really grew. We got into a recession here in the US in 2008, which really took a toll in the construction world and we were down about 30% staff getting through that recession. We weathered it, but it's 2009, 2010. And I was just kind of burned out. I didn't really have the passion to kind of revitalize it.

Speaker 2: 14:46

And that gentleman I told you about his name was Graham Asmanian. He told me we're still friends today is a mentor of mine. He kept telling me, you know, you're a natural at this, like this is like you're calling, and if I had whatever? So 2010,. I said you know what, maybe I'll try this consulting gig and see what happens. You know, so I became certified as a certified professional behavioral analyst, hung out the kind of shingles, started a little website. By 2012, I had sold my contracting business and was consulting full time and, using the behavioral science, I was helping clients match people to the job. You know, so I didn't do any interviewing?

Speaker 2: 15:22

I didn't do any recruiting, it was just consulting. Did that gosh all the way up till maybe 2000,. We're going to be in CoB, it was 2020, so maybe 2015, 16, it's all pretty heavily. And my clients started to ask me. They said, hey, can you sit in on the interviews with us, like you always give us these great questions to ask? Can you just come in with us? Yeah, sure, my standard answer is yeah, we do a lot of that, you know. So I started joining my clients and helping them interview you know, grow and grow. And then they started to ask me can you just recruit and find the people? Of course we do, you know that's. We do a lot of that. So we started recruiting.

Speaker 2: 16:02

I didn't really know a lot about recruiting at the time, so I've kind of fumbled and figured it out as I went along. So that's kind of how I got into the recruiting world. And in 2000, let's see, we're 2022, 23,. Recruiting became the biggest revenue line on the top of my P&L, so it's outpaced the consulting now. So we've got three recruiters, two candidate engagement specialists that helped do us help do researching. So we're hoping to even grow this even more this year. So a bit of how I got there. It's a strange path. I know they go from contractor.

Speaker 1: 16:40

I mean it's so interesting. I remember when we first met and you told me that story and how you know you weren't a recruiter, you're a behavioral analyst and actually you've moved into hiring because that's what your clients have asked you to do and we've obviously been working on fine tuning and refining the search process and you've been upskilling yourself in search to complement that and now the analyst side of it forms an integral part, like a non-negotiable part of the search process for you, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 17:20

Absolutely yeah, we've incorporated that. It's always been part of our hiring process, so we were that little piece of the process for our clients. Now, thanks to your help, we've got an entire recruiting process that incorporates our behavioral science process.

Speaker 1: 17:36

And, for most people, for lots and lots of recruiters, particularly contingent recruiters. I don't remember using any kind of assessment in contingent recruitment, do you, george, apart from just technical tests or things like that?

Speaker 3: 17:57

I'm going to be totally honest, Lou.

Speaker 1: 18:00

I didn't even always feel comfortable using it and retained yeah, and I was going to say even retained consultants, Like death 20 questions.

Speaker 3: 18:09

sorry, I kind of went off on a tangent, Absolutely not contingent. No, no, no.

Speaker 1: 18:16

And even retained consultants kind of and I include myself in this are wary of using assessments that are add any kind of layer of complexity because they don't fully understand it and they're not sure what impact it's going to have and they're not sure how to manage, what the results might be or what it might instill in terms of doubt in their client. And I've always said be careful, really be careful, If you're introducing an assessment tool that you don't know how to use and it can actually be more detrimental and do more harm than good. And that's why I've always stuck to the real simplicity of basic competency interviews to just have they done that before yes or no type interview. And then I met you and you since then have done work and sessions with the mastermind group. You've done a session with us as a team and the power and the clarity and the confidence that knowing how to use those kind of tools gives you is a phenomenal asset in the hiring process, Almost like how could you manage without it?

Speaker 2: 19:44

really, now, when I look at what you guys do, Well, I wouldn't do, I wouldn't run a search without it. Even when I hire internally for my own employees, I use the same process, same tools. I think a lot of recruiters are wary of it because they don't know how to use it. They don't understand it. It'd be like, let's say, jordan comes to me and says man, I don't feel good, and I say, okay, well, I've got this MRI machine. How about I run you through it? If I don't understand the tool, I'm not going to be able to help them. So I think without a good understanding of the tools and the science on how to use it, you can get yourself into trouble. And there's a lot of consultants that run around that, oh, I know about this, but they really don't understand how to match people to the role and the traits that are required to be successful in jobs.

Speaker 2: 20:32

I've been studying this. I think I told you in my story I was introduced to this. It was actually the late 90s when I actually met Grant Mazmian. I've been working with this tool and every day, even today, I still learn something new. It's not something you just pick up overnight. You've got to be dedicated to it. But once you start to see it in action, especially if and this is what I encourage people to do is to get a fund, a niche, be a specialist.

Speaker 2: 20:59

So we have a couple niches that we work in and we have benchmarks we've created. We do a lot of executive search for CEO positions here in the States for particular organization. We know what the benchmark is. So when my team is hiring and interviewing, we're still doing all the same things that we do as recruiters. We're just adding this layer into it with this benchmark. It gives them confidence when they're interviewing and, knowing that they've got the right candidate, they can go to the client say listen, we're not only the interview. Well, the competencies match, their resume matches, we've got this great behavioral match, these passions match and they've got the right soft skills. So it just it sprinkles in another layer.

Speaker 1: 21:40

Yeah, I mean it's. You've given a very light, light touch on it there. How would you feel about like talking us through, like what part it plays in your process, like from, because it starts right at the beginning with the briefing session with the client, doesn't it?

Speaker 2: 22:01

Yeah, absolutely. I'm a firm believer if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there right. So when we start with that briefing, first thing we do is create the benchmark. We've got 55 different traits that we look at behavioral traits and we identify those top traits that are going to be required to the role. You know, I know a lot of times we compare candidates against each other. I think that's a bad idea. Like you know, you can do that. Sometimes you get the cream of the crap right Rather than the cream of the crop. So we're always comparing candidates to the job, not to each other, if that makes sense. So that benchmark right in the beginning gives us that baseline. It's another level of interview questions that we are asking all throughout the recruiting process to make sure they're matching. Now to your point. It does add another layer of work to it. So it's not like this tool replaces anything that any recruiters do on. It's going to add another layer, another perspective, but it's going to. The ROI of.

Speaker 1: 23:01

It is huge in terms of Once you, once you've identified with the client, like those behavioral traits, and that creates a benchmark. Is that right?

Speaker 2: 23:16

That's correct.

Speaker 1: 23:17

And you'll go away then and identify, you'll carry out your search process, you map the market, you identify candidates that look to have the right fit for the brief location, wise and all the basic criteria, and then you'll bring those candidates through an interview process. And what does that look sort of look like for you and what stages of the assessment come in?

Speaker 2: 23:45

So we do a second set of interviews, so we'll do our phone screen. Well, first we do the resume review, we do a phone screen, then we do a first interview. If the candidates look promising there, then we give them the assessment, we get them to a short list and then we do one other interview after that to kind of touch base on any areas where we just feel like they haven't quite give us the clarity or the competence shed in this area. We also look at the assessment compared to that benchmark, identify any gaps and we'll probe in on those as well. I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Let's say we're hiring somebody to work with Jordan. I can tell you right now we need a candidate with a high sense of urgency. Without a doubt we crush them if they don't have it. So if the assessment comes back and the individual is lower on a sense of urgency doesn't necessarily rule them out. But we know we need to have some conversation there to make sure that this either individual is going to be able to adapt or we can coach them in that area.

Speaker 2: 24:47

So it's not, it's not we use these necessarily as a pass fail. It's just an investigative tool. It gives us areas to look into. Sometimes it validates what we've seen in the first interview or confirms what our gut was telling us, and other times it just opens up areas we might have missed.

Speaker 1: 25:02

And so have there been times that you have felt like, oh, this, this candidate's like a dead cert, and then actually the behavioral assessment has raised some major flags that have helped you avoid a bullet or that have yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 25:19

It happens all the time. So when people are on an interview especially if they're got a lot of experience interviewing and, to be honest, some behavioral styles just interview really well it doesn't mean they're a match to the job Right Just because they've interviewed well. So I sometimes only way recruiters will come in is where I really like this person is that it's great. But how do you know they fit the job Right? And my clients will tell me that too oh, we really like this person. Then we look at the results and I say, no, they're very likable, but they don't have the analytical traits that's required for this role. You know, sometimes we hire for a client and say, listen, you're not going to connect well with this individual. What are you talking about? It's got a polar opposite behavioral style from you. However, this is what you need for this role, right? And sometimes, just like I did, clients hire people like themselves. They hire people they like and you know you go with the God. It can lead to a disaster.

Speaker 1: 26:14

And you do a lot of work with. I mean and I love it all because it is so intangible, intangible a lot of the you know the God hiring that so many people do, most recruiters, most hiring managers yeah, I really like them. They're saying all the right things, so therefore I'll hire them. And I mean just to give people listening some kind of context here in terms of the success rate that you get of placing people. What does that look like for you? Like?

Speaker 2: 26:51

we are over 95% people that we put in positions in the three year period. Which is also unbelievable, I don't even want to say that number, because I think people are going to make it up. I think I'm making it up. We have one organization actually doing a new search for right now. Over the past three years we've hired 10 people for them. Three of them are now have worked their way up to VP role. Actually, two are in a VP, one is at a director level.

Speaker 1: 27:26

Yeah, it was phenomenal and the way that not just the way that you're running the process, but your ability to be able to support the client through making what sometimes might feel like the wrong decision but is actually the right decision, with the confidence and clarity that the behavioral assessments give you. But you also do a lot of work with teams as well, like you did a session with us which was brilliant, bringing up in our 90 day meeting and managed to plot us and you plotted us kind of on a graph that showed how different we all are and where we all are and, importantly, where our gaps are, and we now know where our needs are and our weak spots are.

Speaker 2: 28:08

Yeah, you know, a team. We need a lot of different behavioral profiles, behavioral styles on a team. You know we need some that are detail oriented, oriented dot the i's across the t's. We need some that are outgoing. We need some that are visionary. We need some that are supportive, so teams can get lopsided.

Speaker 2: 28:25

I think of a client here in Ohio that I'm working with. They're an engineering firm and we plotted their team out in terms of the wheel and look at all their behavioral styles and they were all on one side of the wheel, right in terms of being analytical and detailed. In fact, we walk into this organization, louise, I swear they measure the distance between the tape blur on their desk like it's precision, but they don't have any work. You know they're struggling because they nobody's out there promoting right. So we can use the same tool to identify where gaps are on the team. Same thing when we're creating that benchmark.

Speaker 2: 29:03

We will put the benchmark and compare it to the team. If we have all the data of the team, sometimes it's a nice add on, you know. If somebody is really wants to hit a home run, we can say let's, let's survey the team, see where your gaps are on the team and then see how this benchmark is going to fit in there. You know so it's. It goes a lot deeper than just the hiring. It's. It's a consultive approach, right, which, to be honest, sets us apart because nobody else is doing it.

Speaker 1: 29:28

Yeah, I mean, in all the years that I've been working in this industry coaching now and doing what we're doing in the hundreds of thousands of recruiters that I've met I have never met anybody doing it like you, with the level of understanding and depth and it's absolutely incredible, like it was. A bit was quite revelational for you, george.

Speaker 3: 29:52

You were quite frightened to begin with when yeah, when I first got my report that Jess kindly did for me, I looked at it and I thought, oh my God, I'm an asshole. Oh, is this true? Surely it's not true. But thankfully Jess managed to kind of walk me through it and explain what it all means. And just looking at our team, the thing that blew my mind is that there were people I work with every single day, really closely with, and I thought I knew them so well. Yet now I have the understanding I have on how they would like to approach a situation is completely 180 to where I thought it was. And if I didn't have that visibility and that knowledge now, I could have spent the next five years managing someone in the wrong way, communicating in the wrong way.

Speaker 1: 30:52

Yeah, totally. I mean, the big, one of the big ones for me was Charlie.

Speaker 3: 30:56

That's exactly what I'm thinking of, by the way.

Speaker 1: 30:58

I always like assume because she goes yeah, no problem, got it, I'll do that and she goes away. I didn't realize that actually, without all of the information and the deadline and complete clarity of what it is that she needs to be able, that we want us to do, she goes away and absolutely panics and I didn't know. Now I know that if I'm looking for Charlie to help us with something, I want to know that she's got all the information that she needs and she feels comfortable with it, rather than going here. You go, here's a bit, fill in the rest, see you later. And I didn't know that. That was like really stressing her out and she's there going. That's my worst nightmare.

Speaker 2: 31:41

So your style you thrive under that pressure especially for us.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Yeah, we do yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:45

So you know, it's that golden rule we try to treat people the way we want to be treated. I believe the platinum role is to treat other people the way they want to be treated.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Yes.

Speaker 2: 31:56

You know, and yeah. Yeah people don't quit their jobs. They usually quit their managers.

Speaker 3: 32:04

It's funny as well because and this might have had nothing to do with it I won't go into what the task was, but when we went away before Christmas, she gave me something to kind of look after, which which I probably normally wouldn't have had. I don't think, or maybe in the past and I was like this is great, this is exciting, this is new, this is something we need to get stuck into.

Speaker 1: 32:25

I did. I did based on based on the assessment we did as a team and knowing Jordan even better. I get a piece that ordinarily I would have kept myself, but I thought this is something that I can see he would really enjoy doing and reaching a resolution on, and so he's the best person in the team to do it. And I wouldn't have known that, I would not have known that. And then you set us an exercise, didn't you, to do our nine today meeting.

Speaker 2: 32:56

Yeah, I'm a firm believer. We all listen to radio station. Wifm stands for what's in it for me, right, and we all we communicate on this frequency and if we want to really communicate with someone we've got to dial into their frequency. The interesting thing is we can change how we give communication, but we can't change how we receive it. So if I want to communicate to Charlie, if I'm going to communicate to Jordan, I've got to adapt.

Speaker 2: 33:24

Now Jordan and I have very similar styles so I can communicate, be myself. We're going to be on the same wavelength. But if I'm communicating with a different style, I've got to adapt. So we have a section in the report for every individual and it customized list of dues and don'ts on communication. So I really encourage teams to sit down with those pages, take a half an hour and look through that list, pick your top two who's on communicating and top two or three don'ts on communicating and then go around you know, around Robin style with the team and share those with each other. You'll really be surprised at how different people are.

Speaker 3: 34:02

Yeah, when I first joined Retrained. So this happened just kind of organically right. When I first joined Retrained, after about three months, lee sat down with me and said you have to stop calling Sarah. I was like what do you mean? Like she's like well, sarah is very different to you and how she works. Like Sarah like get it to the zone. She's very methodical. It's like emails. I'll deal with that then and then that and I'm just like let's pick up a phone and call her and then we'll have like a 42nd conversation and then it's done and then I'll hang up and then I'll pick up the phone to the next person. I'm just kind of all over the place and what I thought was just me being proactive was like really hindering somebody else.

Speaker 1: 34:52

Yeah, yeah, it was driving her insane.

Speaker 3: 34:55

Yeah, and that's my classic example.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Like for you and me, Jord, we'll just pick up the phone and we think that's friendly and a nice, pleasant distraction from whatever we're doing and we'll take time out and have a bit of a chat and make a coffee. And for Sarah, it's just the worst thing that could possibly happen because it interrupts her flow. And it's such a good example. And knowing that, just that simple thing, knowing that can just change the dynamic and the effectiveness of the relationship between two people, can't it?

Speaker 2: 35:25

Absolutely Interesting thing about the introvert. Extrovert is introverts kind of get a bad rap, but part of it is what we call the cognitive activity in the brain. Introverts have a lot of cognitive activity so when people come around them it adds stress to them, like they've already got all these things going on their mind and now we add people to it and they get uncomfortable. Extroverts, believe it or not, have lower cognitive activity, so they have space for when people come in they can engage. So you put that in terms of the report and somebody that's introverted or needs to get to the work first and we try to make small talk with them. It's like short circuits.

Speaker 3: 36:10

It causes it's anxiety. Yeah, yeah, and actually if I look at me and Sarah, we've probably kind of both come in the middle, like there's now times that she'll just pick up the phone and call me because that's what I want and there's times where I'll drop an email and say, don't worry, just get to this whenever you want to. You just kind of figure it out organically, but actually it's taken us probably two years to get to that stage.

Speaker 1: 36:37

Yeah, well, and the process that we've gone through with you.

Speaker 3: 36:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:43

In a couple of hours has catalyzed, like the and our success, and we're going to do that exercise together in our 90 day meeting and keep working on getting better at understanding and we identified the gap at the moment that we have in the team and we're going to work through what we're going to do about that and how we can rebalance us as a team. It's phenomenal really. I love it. I absolutely love it. I love what you do. For those listening, this is probably a good time to share if people want or interested in Jess's. This isn't why we've brought him in, by the way, to promote his services. We wanted to share with you some of the insights and how interesting this is and how helpful it can be for clients for your service, differentiating yourself, whatever tool you choose to use or however you might want to do that, but if you do want to talk to Jess he does train in this in behavioral analysis and uses a fabulous tool. How can people get hold of you, jess, if they are interested in it?

Speaker 2: 37:55

Two ways. My website successfulhiringcom, and they can email me jess at successfulhiringcom.

Speaker 1: 38:05

Nice.

Speaker 3: 38:06

You've got one potential customer on the way, jess, because my wife now is absolutely sick of it. Because whenever I'm told off of the way I acted in a situation at home, I'm saying, well, jess has told me this is completely normal.

Speaker 2: 38:18

And this is exactly what she's got.

Speaker 3: 38:20

There's someone off my profile and she's like right, I want to do one of these profiles so I can defend myself too.

Speaker 2: 38:25

Yeah, yeah yeah, tell her to give me a call, jordan, I'll give her some tips on exactly that.

Speaker 1: 38:33

It was funny when we were away at the event because we did our two day, didn't we? In London in December, and then we had dinner on the second night and we sat around the table and Jess did share lots of stuff at the event and we were around the table as completely different people, completely different people, and straight away, like little things, we walk into this restaurant and straight away, tara was like, oh yes, oh yes, yeah, this is good, I'm OK. Oh yeah, perfect table. Yeah, she's happy. And Jess is already measuring people up and then she says something else further down the night and he's like well, yeah, but that suits you, because what was she like? An aesthetic or something like that she's high on the aesthetic passion.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Yeah, so two things we look at. One is the behavioral traits how people do what they do. Another area we look at is why they do what they do. This is where engagement happens. So we all have these intrinsic motivators, these intrinsic passions. I believe motivating people is somewhat of a myth, right, you just find people who are motivated to do what we're doing and you hire them and we're all again have these six, these different passions, these different motivators. Hers is the aesthetic passion, so she's driven for creativity and harmony. She is very in tune to how things feel, so when she goes into a restaurant she has to find a place where she sits that feels comfortable. So that happens to be my lowest, jordan. I'm looking at your grab at your lowest too, so I can eat a hot dog over the sink out of the microwave and it's dinner. But for a high aesthetic they have to enjoy. It's like an experience.

Speaker 1: 40:14

Straight away, tau is like yeah, that is true, enjoying Lou's quest white shirts and I'm like I'm low on the aesthetic too Like it doesn't matter too. But I drink out of jam jars Like I'm not bothered with stuff like that so, which my dad kind of curses me for. But it was so funny how you haven't even done the assessment with Tau, I don't think.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Or maybe you have I don't think I had her. I just kind of there was some traits.

Speaker 1: 40:43

You're just weighing people up so much.

Speaker 3: 40:45

Well, I remember Jess said we were sitting in the pub after the last day. Jess said the thing is, Jordan, you and Tara are both really motivated, he said. But Tara's motivated because she likes nice things. She likes the experience. You don't necessarily like the nice things, you just want nice things. So people know you're successful. I was like yes, jess knows me.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Well, I wasn't going to say that here on the podcast, jordan, but since you brought it up, Well, like we said at the start, nothing's off limits Like there's, we are who we are.

Speaker 1: 41:21

There's no, not hiding anything here, so it's all good.

Speaker 2: 41:25

Well, you know, Jordan's driven by achievement. But here's the thing he's a very fair Like. He's a win-win thinker. He's not the kind of guy that's going to win at somebody else's cost. You know what I mean? He wins by seeing other people win. That's what's really cool about his style. By the way that's the culture of retrain search Is the guys win by helping other people win. I don't know a lot of people know that, but that's your DNA, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:54

Yeah, it is. It's really an incredible thing to do it is funny, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 41:59

Because we, we like, we love, like an amazing month, let's say our record month, we're like, oh, that's good. And then a customer or son has an email saying they've like, want to return project, and I'm like, yes, it's in the group and emails and it's like that's what fuels us.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Yeah, it totally is, it really is. That is where the actual the fire comes from, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 42:23

Yeah, so we're going to be, I'm seeing go on, jess, sorry. I was going to say real quick, how cool is it when you're working with a client doing a recruiting project and you can tell them I understand your culture. Here it is on paper and we're going to hire people that fit this culture. You know, it's magical, yeah, yeah, it is.

Speaker 1: 42:44

Yeah, because you are a member of our mastermind group that you are running your three day training course for us at our next in person mastermind event, which is going to be in Parma, parma de Mallorca, in Spain, in June, and we're so I'm already ridiculously excited about it. I cannot wait Like Mallorca is one of my happy places, if not my happiest place and to be there with all of you lot and to spend three days learning all about this stuff with you, jess, is going to be an absolute joy. I can't wait. And for any of those of you listening that are the mastermind group is only for those of you that are already retained or majority retained. The doors are closed at the moment. We're not accepting new members yet, but we will be opening the doors in the next quarter, so you're welcome to apply or send an expression of interest and we'll keep you on a list in preparation if this is the kind of stuff that you're interested in for your search process.

Speaker 3: 43:48

And as well as Jess's great three day session, I am going to take you all to the best tapas restaurant.

Speaker 1: 43:56

Are you?

Speaker 3: 43:57

Oh, it's insane.

Speaker 1: 43:58

Is it?

Speaker 3: 43:59

Oh, honestly, honestly, I just I've got a, I've got a cramble on death row and I was asked what's my last male? This place is the place I'm going.

Speaker 1: 44:09

And I've got a little bike ride up my sleeve, my favorite bike ride in all the world. It's not strenuous, it's not difficult, it's open to all abilities, it's completely flat, but it is the best bike ride slash, bar, crawl. You'll ever go on.

Speaker 3: 44:24

So we're going to start as well. Sounds like a dangerous bike ride if it's an extra bar crawl.

Speaker 1: 44:29

We're going to have such a good time.

Speaker 2: 44:31

You're going to have to send me a list of things I need to do while I'm there.

Speaker 1: 44:36

Oh yes.

Speaker 2: 44:37

Oh yeah, this sounds great.

Speaker 1: 44:39

Yeah, it is. It's an awesome place. What do we need to talk about?

Speaker 3: 44:47

I think it's just mindset normally, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, we did that at the start. I just want to talk about the positivity, but I honestly I think I feel like things are picking up.

Speaker 1: 45:02

I felt like towards the end of last year, not only did I feel I suppose I had given everything I had and I was ready for a break I think we all were, but everybody that I was talking to was and it had been such a difficult year. We really had to work hard last year to get what we did get from it. And I feel like already this year, everybody I can't think of an exception and, okay, I've only probably done seven or eight coaching calls so far this year, maybe a little bit more, but every person has either opened their email to two projects, like you did and been got the green light on six roles.

Speaker 1: 45:50

like Gemma has, or got the brand new client in from some business development activity, but not even just that, though, lou.

Speaker 3: 46:00

Some of them, I think, have just they've reinvigorated. They maybe haven't come back with three projects sitting in their emails. Maybe they've just come back and thought I'm done with last year's shit now.

Speaker 1: 46:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 46:15

Fresh year, fresh start, head down, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1: 46:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's what we wanna leave you with Like it is. This is. I think sometimes Robbie Williams' take on life is questionable, but he did write a nice little message for this year saying like this year is a blank, You've got a blank page. 365 days of blank pages. Like write your story, write your best story. It's up to you. So it is. There's glimmers of green shoots of lovely projects, there's work out there. There's clients hiring. Don't sit and feel like it's not there, because it is. And we just wanna give everybody the positivity and good vibes and energy to actually go and get it. And as soon as you start doing that, then that will feed. That will feed more energy and more positivity and you'll be rolling. And if you want a pep talk or you wanna talk to us, then, as always, our diaries online on our website just book in and we'll spread the love, spread the joy, give you some positivity and give you a pep talk and get you set in the right direction.

Speaker 3: 47:29

And you get to be a part of a community with more wonderful people like Jess.

Speaker 1: 47:34

Yes.

Speaker 2: 47:36

Well, I can tell you, as an entrepreneur and a business owner and a recruiter, sometimes you can feel like you're on an island by yourself. But you join a group like you guys have put together and you just touch base with like-minded individuals and you see the successes they're having and success breeds success. So even if you are having a slump, you get around people that can get you in that right mindset. It just kind of happens through osmosis and it can be a game changer.

Speaker 1: 48:04

Yeah, you just Thank you. Thank you very much, george.

Speaker 3: 48:08

Thank you very much, as always. Thank you guys, thank you everyone out there.

Speaker 1: 48:13

Lovely to see you and we'll see you in the next episode, George.

Speaker 3: 48:17

As to a successful 2024.

Speaker 1: 48:20

As to a successful 2024.

Speaker 2: 48:22

I'm excited for it. Thanks for having me on. Thanks everyone. Thank you, jeff. Thanks Jess.

Speaker 1: 48:26

Well, that's another episode of Retrain Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, LinkedIn controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainsearchcom. And don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Speaker 1: 48:56

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our search foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our search mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.