Louise: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work. Retained Discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead, hey, george.

Jordan: 0:22

Hey Lou, you all right.

Louise: 0:24

Welcome everyone to the Retrained Search podcast. What episode are we on now? Absolutely no idea.

Jordan: 0:29

No idea, there's been a few of them though. Yeah, and more and more people are telling us that they're listening to the podcast right now.

Louise: 0:35

I know, I know it's so insane. I was talking to an existing member of ours who's in the mastermind and he said I was talking to him about content and what our plan is and what we're going to be doing and how we're going to be putting his together and stuff. And he was like, oh yeah, I heard that on the podcast and I was like no way have you been listening to our podcast?

Louise: 1:00

And he goes yeah, he said I saw it and this guy's a really good podcaster. And I thought, well, I wonder what that's about. So I put you in my ears while I went and raked leaves and unblocked drains and shit outside. I only meant to listen to what Listen to like four in a row back to back. So it can't be that bad for those of you that are listening. Well, you're still here.

Jordan: 1:20

So we must be doing something right, I suppose.

Louise: 1:23

So how are you doing, Jord?

Jordan: 1:24

I'm all right, I'm just. I keep muting myself because a van has just pulled the part outside of my house, oh no, which I assume means they're about to knock, which I assume means the dog is about to rain. All hell, yeah, on that front door.

Louise: 1:36

Or it could be the window cleaner, and then that would be so far, so good.

Jordan: 1:40

Maybe he's just parked outside my house, but he's going to a different house, so no, I can hear it happening. It's all right, it's fine as long as you guys can't. That's all that matters. No, don't worry about it.

Louise: 1:50

We're good. I can hear him in the background, but I don't mind my load. It doesn't bother me.

Jordan: 1:53

OK, it'll stop in a second.

Louise: 1:54

I hope so are you just about, we were just about to launch into a whole conversation and then I said we need to hit record because I just said to Jord he said how are you? And I went, I'm really busy and I was still like inhaling the rest of my lunch while I said it.

Jordan: 2:09

And then you said Well, yeah, I've just been. I looked in my diary so I go away on holiday next week and go on to New York and I needed a pair of jeans altered. And I looked in my diary and there was like I've got an hour's gap and I think this is it, like this is the hour. If it doesn't happen in this hour, that's it. So I had to go to the traffic centre, which is like a massive shopping mall near my house mall how American mall and shopping centre, I don't know, but it's probably 20 minutes away. So I had a 14 minute round trip with 20 minutes in between to get the jeans given, altered, measured, so on and so on. So I went to the traffic centre, which is a busy place. I thought I am not time to put the jeans on when I'm there, so I'm going to have to go in the jeans so they can just alter them. I can throw a pair of shorts and after it I'm done, I'm out.

Jordan: 3:01

And I didn't think about where I was parking and I parked at the complete opposite end of the traffic centre to this shop and walked through looking like I'd just been scraped up off the streets. I had these jeans round my ass like having to hold them up because they hadn't took a belt with me. I had no socks on with shoes. Oh, it's a similar look to God. It was absolutely horrendous. But the jeans are given in and back in time. I don't know why. I'm going to pick them up, but I'll figure that one out as we go Okay, good.

Louise: 3:34

Well, I'm glad you're as busy as I am, because I just don't even have time to go to the bathroom at the moment. So I'm having the same problem. I've got like.

Jordan: 3:42

Sarah and Charlie. We're at our house. Yesterday we're at my house. We had like a co-working day and I think they arrived at about 10. They left at about five and I think I spoke to them for a total of three minutes throughout the day. I'm on another call. Bye, see you later. Hope you sell to coffee and tea and whatever they did, they did well, they didn't.

Louise: 4:02

They got loads of stuff done?

Jordan: 4:04

Did they get to cuddle the baby? No baby wasn't here. Charlie saw the baby first thing, and then Becca was out for the day. She had her appointments and nails and all that woman stuff. Well, 21st century now, or men?

Louise: 4:19

Men can get the nails done as well. You get your nails done.

Jordan: 4:23

No, I don't. I've got workers hands from all the tennis supply.

Louise: 4:26

That's crazy, you haven't got workers hands. You wouldn't go near hard for the grass labour like that would you? We get your trainers too.

Jordan: 4:35

No, I moisturise, I moisturise. Don't get me involved in any of that manual labour.

Louise: 4:41

I've moved away from it myself, Right. So we are going to talk first about what we've been helping people with. What so, Jord, like what have you been up to? I've been away. I'll tell you all about that in a minute. Oh really, Okay.

Jordan: 4:57

Tell us about that. You were honoured to be invited to speak to a pretty special audience.

Louise: 5:03

The Pinnacle Society. For those of you that don't know, it's a group of recruiters that's been around for quite a while. It's like 25 years, I think.

Louise: 5:11

They've been established and they're a group of top billing recruiters, in the US mainly, and I think the original requirement was you had to be a million dollar biller three years in a row in order to be allowed in. I think the barriers to entry is a little bit lower now. I think you have to be half a million dollars a year, three years in a row. Don't quote me on that, though, but it's something. It's like a long those days.

Jordan: 5:37

But listen, it's impressive numbers. Right, You've got to be posted with a part of the kind of group.

Louise: 5:42

And they have a conference every year, I think, and they invited me to come and speak at it, which was an honour and the privilege, mainly because the majority of them are contingent, some are retained, but the majority are mainly contingent and there are quite a lot in there that want to get better retained. So I went over to Savannah in I didn't actually know where Savannah was, I'll come clean.

Louise: 6:08

I thought it was in Nevada. So that's awful, isn't it? My American geography is not good enough, despite the fact that I lived over there for. Yeah, I mean you several years, but it turns out it's in.

Jordan: 6:19

Georgia, I think you're probably, I know the.

Louise: 6:21

Carolinas and I have been to the Carolinas before and it was awesome.

Louise: 6:26

It was so good to meet a group of really dynamic and impressive recruiters and even more awesome and humbling to know that they want to learn and they want to find out more and they want to develop and they want to progress and retain is a big topic for them because this year has been quite difficult for a lot of them and is and still is actually overhearing a lot of the conversations that revenue is down for some people and they're still getting back to where they were pre crash earlier this year and back in the last year, but it was great. Did you know that Savannah is the most haunted city in the world currently?

Jordan: 7:09

I didn't. What I love is that you totally brushed over the fact that when you said I didn't know where Savannah was, I thought it was in Nevada. You are literally two opposite ends of the. United States of America, like if I, if my geography is right, nevada is like very much West Coast and Georgia is very much East Coast. Yeah, so you're only about a 10 hour flight, not far off.

Louise: 7:33

In my defense, in my defense, in my defense. I was originally asked to speak at one of their conferences that that was in Nebraska. Nebraska's in Nevada. Right, okay, oh right.

Jordan: 7:47

Don't know, don't think so.

Louise: 7:48

I'm so sorry, I don't know.

Jordan: 7:50

Anyway, doesn't matter, you just go on to nice kind of put the place in, put the flights and get off the plane right. But I take one thing that does, one thing I find interesting. I often think, when you look at these mega billers, right, what is it that separates them? And I wonder whether that mindset is one of the things the fact that even though they are at their pinnacle, excused upon, there is a constant desire to improve, to get better at and appreciates that they don't know everything.

Louise: 8:23

I mean, yeah, I do think that's a big part of it. I also think and it came up in the conference that amongst pretty much everybody in there and I see it with you, with me and with the members of our team as well is there's a massive fear of failure.

Louise: 8:41

And they talked about it and how it drives most of the people and I only learned actually I mean, this is totally like sideways but I only learned recently that apparently Michael McIntyre has a massive fear of not being financially secure and that's what drives him. But I think a lot of us that are successful are driven by that fear of failing and weirdly, I think, in a way, what's happened with a lot of the people there is that same fear of failing has prevented them from selling retained. Yeah, do you remember the?

Jordan: 9:17

Do you see?

Louise: 9:18

that the conversation we had with the lady who was a top biller in Canada and she had exactly the same thing. She was like 1.2, 1.5 mil, all contingent, and only it's delivered on everything but only won't sell, retained because she's terrified that she won't deliver it. So anyway, there you go.

Louise: 9:40

And a lot of them haven't done retained work and when I started to share the concepts and what it really is and how it isn't about promising to find the perfect candidate and all those things that are like ooh, mind blown. So that was pretty cool and, yeah, it had a lot of fun she had a bit of a bite, but but again.

Jordan: 9:57

Isn't that funny right? Because I remember when I first did this training and there was probably a fear of failure with me as well Like I'm scared to sell it because what if I can't deliver on it? And actually over time my mindset shifted completely. I was scared to work it contingently because I knew that that was what gave me the biggest chance of failure, because if I worked it contingently, I couldn't apply the time, I couldn't apply the resource, I couldn't apply the process that was needed to, as near as dammit, guarantee success.

Louise: 10:31

Absolutely, absolutely. And then you get to the stage where it's the only way it's the only way that I know I'm gonna be able to deliver a result.

Louise: 10:40

And I mean we end up with talk all day about it, can't we? But you get to the stage where you're so confident in your process and the process that you're gonna apply that, come hell or high water, you will reach a result and the best result that's available to everybody. But that's where your process comes in and that's why people that are coming from a contingent background, that are trying to sell retain, that don't know what that process is or needs to be like, stumble with it and then either screw it up or just stay away from it because they think, oh what if I win it? And then fuck it up. So a massive part of what we teach to sell is all about delivery.

Louise: 11:23

It's all about how you make sure that you reach a result on the project, and that's where the confidence comes, of course, to sell it, isn't it?

Jordan: 11:29

So, yeah, it's intrinsically linked, isn't it? The sale and the delivery?

Louise: 11:33

So that's me. I've been traveling the world. What about you, Jord? What have you been up to?

Jordan: 11:38

Not been traveling the world. I've been in my six foot by six foot office but I've been helping people. Yeah, it's been a great couple of weeks. One of the big talking points that it's kind of funny. It's funny, isn't it, how there is so often themes and trends and the minute somebody asks a question about one particular area, you find out that so many others of our members have been thinking about the same thing and facing the same challenges. And one of the big things that's been a topic of conversation is around specking out candidates.

Jordan: 12:16

Yeah, I think often in the States especially, they're called what?

Jordan: 12:19

Npcs is it most placeable candidates?

Jordan: 12:24

And I think one of the fears with specking out candidates is often people think it's a very contingent way of developing business and the winning retain business should be some sexy process, it should be smooth and it should be really complex and technical. But actually, over time what I found is that some of the best ways of developing new business are the ways that I was taught in my first three weeks of contingent recruitment. One of the first things I was taught to do was speck out candidates. Now I'm not saying if I were to speck out a candidate now I'd do it in the same way that I did it seven or eight years ago, like it's much more sophisticated, but there is a huge opportunity to demonstrate capability, credibility, to show your network that you engage with the right caliber of talent, that you have a strong network, you know what good looks like when it comes to talent and it is absolutely possible to flip a speculative CV a speculative introduction into a retain search and it brings me to either remind you or our audience of something we shared.

Louise: 13:42

I think it was last week where one of our mastermind members was one of his first CEO search on the back of a send out I think some people call it and that was fully retained 30% Third of third of third is first ever CEO search. It doesn't need to be complicated, it doesn't need to be elaborate. It can be quite straightforward, but there are certain things that you need to make sure that you're doing that you wouldn't do when you're doing it on a contingent basis, and the key is the conversation that you have with the client once they bite on that, if they're essentially interested in it because you can very easily get stuck into just working.

Jordan: 14:28

Should we give the listeners a sneak preview into that conversation? What do you think? Yeah, just to snip it.

Louise: 14:33

I think. So, basically, what you need to do is you need to get on call with them. I mean, that's the first thing, and you would do that contingently anyway, wouldn't you Right? You wouldn't send a candidate in blind. Yeah, you know what are they actually looking for? Because the important thing is, if what they're looking for is it's just somebody and you know anybody will do then you might as well take your chances with seeing the candidate and they're probably just going to carry on just accepting random people that are being, you know, dancing their inbox or shared speculatively.

Jordan: 15:05

Yeah. Yeah, and you might get the off quick win from that right.

Louise: 15:09

If what they want to do is just interview the candidate and make the hire, well then that's fine, no problem.

Louise: 15:16

The problem is that if they interview that candidate and they don't they're not a fit and actually they want to find the right fit and that person won't do then they start to look for other people to compare or contrast or as an ad. Firstly, that candidate will know exactly what's happening, so you'll lose that candidate, so you won't be able to keep that candidate warm while you then go back to market and start interviewing, because they always know what you're doing. And secondly, if that then next candidate doesn't turn out to be a fit, you then back to the drawing board again. And what I? And let's remember, the candidate you're sending in hasn't been assessed against their brief because you've just randomly made an introduction, so they're not been assessed against the brief, functionally behaviorally.

Louise: 16:02

you don't even know whether they're really interested in the position or whether they would even accept it if they were offered it, because that's not how they've been found as a result of another search, and that's key to this candidate has been found as a result of a search We've kept it for somebody else.

Louise: 16:17

So if they don't turn out to be fit, which is possible, quite possible, in fact can you ever remember I mean, it isn't very often you place the candidate that you spec in, is it? I quite often found that it wasn't very rare, isn't it?

Jordan: 16:30

It's like gold cost on that.

Louise: 16:32

Anyway, if they don't turn out to be a fit and they do need to find somebody then what I normally suggest we do is launch the search in the background, go ahead and interview this candidate, but let's launch the search in the background and that way, if this candidate turns out to be a fit, that's fine. Make the offer will simply build a lump sum. That would have been would have been bills minus the retainer that you pay, so you're not going to pay anymore. But if they don't turn out to be a fit, because we're working in partnership with you, we'll be well underway with the search and we'll have a short list of candidates for you to move forward with. You won't have lost any time and because we're working with you in partnership on a retained basis, we'll work with you to make sure that we reach a result.

Louise: 17:19

That's what I normally do when I'm speculously introducing candidates. Cool, so we were going to have yeah, share some of those stuff. That's been happening a lot. I did hear while I was away. I heard a lot of people saying the most, in fact, I've only heard this morning on a couple of calls that on a couple of sales calls people saying the market shit, which is sad for me to hear, because some people are doing really well, and I was going to share some of the good things because that's nice to have some good news.

Jordan: 17:50

It's happening, yeah, and it is funny, though, isn't it? It's like it is like a tap, like the people that I'm hearing now say the market isn't great. The people that three or four months ago were saying, actually, my market seems to be all right. And the people that three or four months ago, were telling me the market isn't great and I'm struggling, and now telling me I'm seeing green shoots and things are picking up and I'm winning retailing business again.

Louise: 18:16

Okay, so let's share some of that good news. So this is one of our newer members. I don't know that I've read this fully yet. What does he say? He says Hi Louise, yeah.

Jordan: 18:31

Now he's new right. He's been with us a couple of weeks, that's it.

Louise: 18:35

Quick note to let you know I'm really enjoying the programme and I've not scratched the surface yet. I'm not saying I've won my first project, but, having come off a meeting with a client this morning implementing your approach and teachings, I wrote away like I've not done for a long time, in capital letters. It felt fantastic, identifying pain points and realising retained was the way to go, without using the word retained, which I always used to do before Don't. Even the client said before and he said that, by the way, not me, for those of you listening he's written that in his. I'm not saying that about him, he said it about himself. Even the client said before ending the VC no, I like it all, we don't need to speak with anyone else, let's get on with it. I'll introduce you to another colleague and we'll get the ball rolling.

Louise: 19:17

I'm hoping we land it because there are three leadership roles there and I set up the proposal to it. I've known him for years and I take objections to come along in the way. Based on what your program teaches, I know it's important to have another meeting with the client and the stakeholders to go through the proposal and cover it this way, instead of emailing it to them and waiting for their feedback Each way. Either way, I'll try to nail it and bring it home. I wanted to give you this feedback because it's a wonderful thing you're doing for the community and I look forward to continue learning. Oh, that's so nice, well done. No, no, I'm not good.

Jordan: 19:52

I'm going to cry here.

Louise: 19:53

Here's another one. I like the title of this one From CJ yeah, it's a big lesson. I just used the verb yeah. I just used the verb yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Jordan: 20:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Louise: 20:13

Yeah, so I just used the verb from retrained on. A client called and we got search at 30% retained. Magical. She said thank you again, Looking forward to telling you more fun stories. Smiley face. I also sent a mini deck as I was talking, which I referenced Good girl, Good girl. And here's another one. Go on.

Jordan: 20:46

I'm just going to say I'll take the magical shout. It's actually not magical Like you can do it, it's pretty straightforward, you don't need to be a wizard. You just need to be shown how. And then you can do it.

Louise: 21:02

What's this one? Oh yeah. So I was on a coaching call with one of our very, very, very new members literally joined. I think she's in her third coaching call now. So a matter of what? Two weeks, three weeks is that and one of her fellow members was saying wow, that was a great pitch, I loved it, well done. And she said thank you, I thought everyone smashed it and they did, but she did pretty well. She says she had a pitch with a client that afternoon and so she was practicing ready for that and she said I've just left my pitch. They are keen to progress, but as it's not how they've worked before, we need a yes from the CEO of exclamation mark. So a follow-up meeting's booked in with him on Monday afternoon to present again. So she's already on the cusp of winning her first project and I'm well sure she's doing so well.

Jordan: 21:54

And that's normal. We've talked about that before, haven't we? Yes, but that's normal. Having to pitch twice to different stakeholders within the same business.

Louise: 22:01

We don't need to be worried about it. We just have to keep going and just resist the urge to send things to them for them to pitch it internally, and yes, of course it takes a bit longer than a contingent. Okay, I have that job, but it's worth it. Believe me, Believe us when we tell you it's worth it. What's this?

Jordan: 22:20

one.

Louise: 22:22

It's Greenlit Groten. It's going to be German. Hey, Louise, been a few weeks now since I signed up with the cause and already have four retainers in. Oh yes, Bloody hell, I remember. I don't think he is German, though, is he? I think maybe he's just in Germany at the moment. He is one of our guys that travels around quite a lot and is a. I mean, some of them call them like no bad recruiters, don't they? And I like the sound of that. He's doing a great job. So only a few weeks in is already one for a second. Thank you for providing such a great and extensive training course. He said yeah, good luck.

Jordan: 22:57

Well done. Not glad.

Louise: 22:59

Good job? I think that is yeah. That's why we're sharing.

Jordan: 23:04

It is possible, guys, in this market, but some people are finding quite difficult.

Louise: 23:08

It's still possible to win your work on a retained basis.

Jordan: 23:13

Well, do you know what? No excuses, right, like, go back to what we were talking about earlier with the pinnacle guys that you were with last week, that fear of failure, that drive to constantly evolve and get better. In every market there are winners and losers, I would do everything within your power to make sure you're a winner.

Louise: 23:32

I like that. We should have saved that for the minute on mindset. Maybe that can be our minute on mindset. Yeah, we should, yeah Well maybe that was here More like 20 seconds but. See anything controversial in your travels recently, on LinkedIn or anything that you didn't agree with.

Jordan: 23:54

Do you know what I thought we could do? I thought and this isn't me when we talk about the LinkedIn controversies or anything we've seen on LinkedIn I thought we could just talk for a minute about. We had a wonderful session for our members with David Wollstone home, didn't it Yesterday? It brought me better Talking. All things organic personal branding. What were your main takeaways from that, though I thought we could maybe just share the odd snippet of what was discussed on that session.

Louise: 24:23

What were my main takeaways? One of the things that I wish I had done, and will do and would have done, had I known is so simple, but just commenting on your target prospects content.

Jordan: 24:39

No, no, the biggest thing I took away from it was and it's a bit like do you ever watch Dragon's Den? So occasionally someone comes on Dragon's Den with an idea, right, and it's so simple and straightforward, right, and it solves a huge problem, and you sit there and go, oh shit, yeah, like why has nobody ever thought to do that? How easy is that.

Louise: 25:03

Yeah.

Jordan: 25:05

And then Dave made the point about someone had asked him what should I?

Louise: 25:07

be posting what?

Jordan: 25:08

should I be talking about? And he said well, ask your customers.

Louise: 25:12

Yeah.

Jordan: 25:13

Like, speak to your customers and say what do you want me to talk about? Like, what's interesting? What troubles are you facing? What are you struggling with? Yeah, I was like yeah.

Louise: 25:23

Yeah, it's so true. Because one of the things that he does, like at the beginning of his program because we've done the program with him, so we know is he actually goes to your customers and asks them how are you perceived, what do they love about you and your brand, what don't they love about it? What do they want to see more off from you? What don't they want to see from you? And it's fucking unreal. It's so powerful and there are all questions that I suppose you'd be too scared to ask yourself in. In a lot of ways, some of those things would be because you're really exposing yourself, aren't you, by asking those questions directly to the customer. But but there's nothing to stop you from asking the easier ones, like what do you want to see more from me? What don't you want to see from me?

Jordan: 26:06

Like why?

Louise: 26:07

why try and guess what they want to consume? Why not just fucking ask them? It's so straightforward. I love him. I think he's awesome. He's absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant. For anyone listening, that is a guy called David Wallston home. He's based in Sydney, australia, really is an expert in branding.

Jordan: 26:25

Yeah business branding and the very lucky problem does are phenomenal.

Louise: 26:30

Yeah, good point, good point, Jord. And Well, we finished with a minute on mindset. I think my message is what I one of the things that just kept coming up with the people in in Savannah and the group that I've just spent some time with, and that is your. What you perceive retained search to be Probably isn't what it is. What you think you're going to have to do and what you think you're committing to Probably isn't isn't actually what your, your, you will have to do to be able to to when you work on a retained basis. There was just this massive preconception that you take the retainer and then it's a ball and chain and you have to find the perfect candidate, and all of them Were terrified of that, and it's no reason that they stayed away from it, but it's just not sure that isn't that isn't it, that isn't it, so that's my we talked about the uber analogy before on the podcast.

Jordan: 27:37

We have actually, yeah, we have.

Louise: 27:39

Yeah, we have, yeah, we have, but we will again, but not right now, because I don't want to over complicate that, just wanting people to to realize that all the things that you think, because I've just come off a call with a guy, very experienced guy, in Hong Kong. He's dealing with very senior positions in In governance and and legal and compliance in Hong Kong. You know, vp and above, he's only got 1% of his worker on a retained basis. He's got a team it should be more and the thing that's stopping him is he's got this massive preconceived idea that a Only the Shrek firms can win retained work, only this sophisticated search firms can do it only done at senior levels wrong.

Louise: 28:26

I C-suite, even more senior, and that's not true. The his clients won't buy it wrong His clients won't buy it below the C-suite and we know firsthand every fucking day from people winning projects below that level all over the bloody world. That's not true and the If he takes the retainer, he has to then find the perfect candidate and he's terrified that they. If they don't exist, then he's foxes relationship with the client and that's not true either.

Louise: 28:51

No, really so that is my big message to you all. The things that you think you think it is. It probably isn't so. If you want, yeah, like if you want to find out what it actually is and how to actually Apply it in a way that that makes sense and works for you and your clients and your candidates, then We'd like to talk to you, even if we just have a chat with you, and Diagnose what's holding you back, and that is the key to unlocking you to be able to do it.

Louise: 29:19

But we're happy to do that. We just, we just have free 45 minutes with you and chat to you about it and let us help as many people as possible. So to do that. By the way, I'm not sure whether there's a link somewhere near this podcast that you can find it on the website right as well, and if and if you do want to know what the uber analogy is, you can either book a call with us, we'll be happy to tell you.

Jordan: 29:44

Or you can go back and listen to every other episode of the podcast and you can find it yourself, yeah.

Louise: 29:50

Yeah, yeah, and we will share it again because it is a very, very good one. All right, on that notes. Thank you and leave you all until the next time. Thank you, jordan. Lots of love. I'm glad you got your jeans sorted.

Jordan: 30:03

Not sorted yet. Wait till I go and turn up and the like, the like. Three quarters now instead, because they've altered them wrong.

Louise: 30:11

I hope that's not the case.

Jordan: 30:12

We'll see.

Louise: 30:14

Well, that's another episode of Retrain Search the podcast in the bag. Thanks for listening to our wild tales, linkedin controversies and our top tips on how to sell and deliver retained search. Get involved in our next episode. Send in your questions and share your experiences with us by emailing podcast at retrainedsearchcom, and don't be shy. Connect with us on LinkedIn and come and say hi, we don't bite, unless you're a Shrek firm, that is.

Louise: 30:44

We want to say a special thank you to our retrained members for sharing what's working for them right now and innovating new ways to grow and evolve. It's an incredible community. If you're wondering what exactly we mean when we mention our communities, well, we have two separate programs. Our search foundations program is for recruiters who want to learn how to sell and deliver retained search solutions consistently, and we have our search mastery program. That's for business leaders or owners already at 50% retained or more and looking to scale and grow and structure their search firm. We cap memberships to these programs to protect the integrity of the community. If you want access, just talk to us. Okay, thanks for listening. We'll be back very soon with another episode of Retrained Search the podcast.