Louise: 0:00

Welcome to Retrained Search, the podcast where we lift the lid on what it's really like to work. Retained Discuss the stories we've gathered along the way and give you all a peek behind the scenes of our amazing community and how they're getting ahead. Is everything okay?

Jordan: 0:23

I can still hear you and see you.

Louise: 0:25

Oh, there we go.

Jordan: 0:26

Which is a positive. I want to know how you scaled the roof.

Louise: 0:32

Well, it was a bit dangerous because there's no children here. I think when I told them to get off the internet they just left. So when I shouted help, just in case, I fell off the roof. You know it was like a false alarm Really loudly. Nobody came, so but I did it anyway. I climbed up on the roof and I've put the dish on the roof. It's like balanced very precariously. Any wind and it will fall off and I don't know what happened and I'll just go fuzzy and die. But here we are. We're here. How are you?

Jordan: 1:03

Yeah, I'm very good, very good, I'm happy to be here.

Louise: 1:08

What episode are we on now? It's very low down.

Jordan: 1:13

So what it was? I'm not very good at DIY and my desk in our office was built by myself. It's actually a kitchen worktop. Oh yeah, yeah, and it was a great idea.

Louise: 1:27

And it's very low down.

Jordan: 1:28

Yeah, but I know I built the desk too high.

Louise: 1:35

I know they forgot my velvety mic then, so I just had to bring it into view.

Jordan: 1:38

Right, all this new kit. So I'm at the right height, but the desk is probably a little bit too high, which is the issue. But I can probably tilt it a little bit. There you go. You can see me better now.

Louise: 1:51

I can, that's better. So, Jord, it's getting closer to the due date, isn't it?

Jordan: 1:57

It is Two weeks yesterday. I should have a little daughter. Yeah, it's getting very close. And what we had. It's all very good in this day and age. My parents informed me it was never like this when I was born. We had a tour around the maternity ward at the hospital last week and on that tour they told me that I can watch the whole she's having, my wife's having a C-section. I was told I can watch the whole operation, everything.

Jordan: 2:26

Oh, my wife wasn't happy because she said surely you're not going to be able to sit there and watch the person that you love get cut open? You know the one love of your life. And I said well, mo Salah, who plays for Liverpool, isn't the one giving birth, so I'll be fine.

Jordan: 2:45

Oh, jotay, you didn't say that, but, yeah, I'm going to buy a pair of crocs because I have to wear like scrubs like a doctor, and I'm going to buy a stethoscope and I'm going to play doctor for the day. That's the plan. That's how I'm going to get through it. You're going to dress up like a doctor too? Yeah, absolutely so. Two weeks yesterday, yeah, oh wait, I can't wait, I can't wait.

Louise: 3:11

I can't wait to not only hold the little baby, but I can't wait to actually see you go through what it's really like.

Jordan: 3:21

Although life gets more difficult.

Louise: 3:22

I know you don't like people saying that, but you know.

Jordan: 3:24

Yeah, I know, I know, I know, but what the thing is as well, you can never sack me once I've got a baby, because I'll just guilt trip you.

Louise: 3:32

Oh, okay, yeah, I've got babies, but I can sack other people with babies and children.

Jordan: 3:38

I've got babies. There's a point you can do that for the baby.

Louise: 3:41

Not you. I would never sack you anyway.

Jordan: 3:46

Right answer Right.

Louise: 3:50

And what if I've been up to well, I've been away all week, haven't I?

Jordan: 3:54

I've been in.

Louise: 3:54

Woolocham in Daven eating Cornish pasties with no internet Are you used to that though. No internet. I did, did. It was nice, actually. I had a nice break and it's amazing to be able to go away and know that everything's in safe hands and everybody is in safe hands, and so many exciting things have been happening while I've been away, haven't they?

Jordan: 4:15

They have. Yeah, we've been nice and busy. Members winning Markets, I think, getting better, improving. Yeah, all very, very busy and very, very, very exciting, I think you've been saying that on calls with people in the US.

Louise: 4:35

You're having different things now, aren't you?

Jordan: 4:38

Yeah, I just feel like there's Just a change in tone really, and I think, like the cause we have with prospective customers are like a real acid test of the market at any given time in terms of how people are feeling.

Louise: 4:55

Yeah, definitely.

Jordan: 4:56

And kind of four or five months ago I think there was concern and a bit of apprehension and a bit of anxiety and just in the space of a few months that seems to have changed. People are talking to me about wanting to grow and wanting to scale and wanting to build teams and how forecastable revenues are a big part of them being able to do that. So, yeah, it's exciting. I think a lot of people are seeing green shoots and things improving again and picking up.

Louise: 5:26

Yeah, nice.

Jordan: 5:28

Yeah.

Louise: 5:29

Good, I'm pleased to hear that. I'm pleased to hear that I haven't been hearing that, because I haven't been hearing anything but the waves of the lovely sea rolling into.

Jordan: 5:35

Devon's coastline. I feel like I've been the boss, hasn't it?

Louise: 5:38

Yeah, but stuff has been happening and we wanted to share some of that, so I have got some news to share and that is. I'm just gonna share my screen and I've been told that I need to read these out.

Jordan: 5:56

Yeah, we're gonna read them out. Yes, you can tell I'm very new to this podcast thing. Someone quite rightly pointed out that when we share our screens and we talk through very briefly the winds, a lot of our lovely listeners are not gonna be watching, they're gonna be listening, they can't actually see them first.

Louise: 6:14

Can't actually see it.

Jordan: 6:16

That's a very good point, so we are gonna start reading them out. Ah, this one was Ben, wasn't?

Louise: 6:23

it. It was just a couple of days ago. He shared with all of the group that he has just closed. He says I've just closed on my first retainant in the aviation industry, which is very exciting, as this is where most of my previous experience has been, so it should be an obvious niche At Jordan. You might find this hard to believe, but I didn't send the proposal. I completely get your point on this, by the way, which is about bloody time, isn't it?

Jordan: 6:53

Yeah, I've been banging that drum for what feels about eight months, but we're there. We're there and it's so good to see him winning. It really is.

Louise: 7:04

Yeah, he says I'm getting better at managing the meetings. To avoid doing it, to avoid sending the proposal which is great, well done. It's not easy, right?

Jordan: 7:10

It isn't easy when a customer says to you can you send me a proposal? It really isn't easy to navigate through that and not send the proposal.

Louise: 7:19

No, no, I completely agree, and you can piss them off if you're not careful the way that you do it. You've got to, you have got to be careful the way you do it.

Jordan: 7:27

Yeah.

Louise: 7:28

And then Joe. Oh my God, I'm so happy for Joe. Joe has been wanting to do our program for ages, but she has only just set up on her own. She's over in Australia and she was waiting until she had enough cash flow to be able to join us. And she has finally joined us. She's been working so diligently on getting through the course and coming to the coaching and I listened to her pitch only just before one holiday week before last, and she was so good it brought tears to my eyes.

Louise: 8:04

I was like oh my God, Joe, you're absolutely nailing this. You need to get out there and do it, and she did so. She says pitch delivered on one. I'm super excited to share that I delivered my first proper pitch and that I won it. And she says she's so excited and there's loads of emojis.

Jordan: 8:18

Yeah.

Louise: 8:19

I'm so chuffed for her.

Jordan: 8:20

Yeah, he is so chuffed for her. I'm going off on it. I'm going off on a little bit. You have to forgive me, loom, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but it's just an interesting point that one of our existing members made to me this week. And what prompted my thought is when you said about Joe waiting for kind of a cash flow sorry to be where it needs to be and he said he was quite similar. This member, he was waiting for cash flow and he said actually, though now I've started the course, what I've realized is that if I work on a contingent basis whilst I wait for the cash flow to improve, I'm probably going to win or be allowed to work on a position. It's going to take me a couple of months to fill it, then I'm going to have a couple of months in an old period, then they're going to start and I'm going to send the invoice. Then it might be 36, the 90 days before they pay the invoice, I could be six, seven, eight months away from seeing some revenue.

Jordan: 9:09

Whereas actually, with retaining this isn't a plug of our course, I'm just talking generically with that transition to the retained model, yeah, ok, there might be some upfront investment. Yeah, there might be a bit of pain early on, but actually the revenue you're going to realize is well, if you look at Joe, it can be instant.

Louise: 9:27

Just straight away, yeah, instead of waiting seven months to get paid. And I love that, and I've never really thought about it like that. I just knew, as soon as I had realised that you can win work on a retained basis work that would otherwise be you would work on contingent, ie that you're not doing anything differently, you're not going anywhere differently, not talking to any the people he's talking to generally, to begin with, aren't on any different to those that you're working with at the moment. As soon as I realised that that same work can be converted to retained, I just I didn't want to, I didn't, I didn't. I know you were very similar. A lot of people go the same way. But he couldn't get his head around not working on it contingently because he felt like he was missing out on immediate revenue. And then he went away and processed it all and was like hang on a minute, I'm not walking away from immediate revenue, I'm walking away from spending seven months hoping that I'll get paid for something.

Louise: 10:23

And it reminds me of. You know the misconception that a lot of people make when they they feel like, when they aren't working on contingent work, they're walking away from a fee, in the same way that you know they think they're walking away from instant revenue. They think that they're walking away from a fee. But then when you, when you look at the stats of how many contingent jobs you work on versus how many actually turn into revenue, you're probably going to be looking at tops like what? One in five, one in four maximum, like the highest contingent fill rate I've seen is like 30% and that's really high. So actually you're walking away from a 70 75% chance of working on something that doesn't result in a fee.

Jordan: 11:13

You're walking away from a lot of pain and a lot of wasted time.

Louise: 11:15

You're walking away from a much, much, much, much, much, much. Three times higher probability of working on something and not making anything at all. Then then walking away from a fee, and I think you know when people start to get their heads around that and they realise that when you work on a retain basis, your fill rate goes right up to mean 95s low Alice that we're coaching at the moment hers is 100%. She's been doing this since I first taught her what three years ago.

Louise: 11:45

Yeah fill rates 100%. She hasn't failed. Everything you work on, what you know, results in a fee. So, you feel like you're walking away from revenue with contingent, but actually you're walking away from doing a whole load of work and there being a very small possibility of you getting anything. And even if you do get something, that's going to be like six, seven months down the line.

Jordan: 12:04

Yeah, yeah, really good points. Sorry points.

Louise: 12:07

Thank you, George. Please don't be sorry.

Jordan: 12:11

Not for that anyway, I'm not just being polite.

Louise: 12:14

No, okay.

Jordan: 12:17

Okay, more women, All right Lou.

Louise: 12:19

Yeah, that has. I'm just sharing my screen now and, yeah, I got this lovely email from Nick and I was quite surprised to receive it because Nick was very delivery focused. He was candidate focused, shall we say, in all of the work that he'd done previously, and I tend to advise people that are looking to move to retained that the people who do the best with learning how to work on a retain basis are those that are very client focused, so they've got more of a sales leaning. They're the hunters, rather than the farmers, that first start. When he retained work and Nick didn't fall into that category and so completely transparently explained to him when he first joined us that he's welcome to join the cause, welcome to go through the program.

Louise: 13:17

I would do everything that I could to help him, but traditionally, the people that get the best success of those that are quite focused on and have quite a beady orientated background, and so I was actually quite surprised to get this email to say that he says Hello, hope you well. I thought I'd get back in touch with you. You might recall, I was one of the first to try your course back in 2020, during lockdown and after a painstaking series of implementation of challenging employers within the sector, sector we specialize in want to share with you. We're now operating at a 70% with retainer conversion rate Nice, which is just bloody brilliant, and he says being able to charge more for a tailored service.

Louise: 14:00

we're now having companies reach out to us directly. He talks about in situations where we've been challenged, even clients insisting that they work contingent. They've passed it ways and since then I've had two companies come back after a couple of months and then agreeing to work on a retained partnership.

Louise: 14:24

He says it's mainly due to having all the documentations to hand that we've been coaching him on. He says how the retained route is so much better for the hiring needs in the long term, which of course we know, and then goes on to say that it's just shy of 100 case secured Thanks.

Jordan: 14:44

I'll see you in a month. I think that as well, isn't it?

Louise: 14:46

Yeah, so thank you and wish you all continued success, which is really lovely. And you know, yeah, it just goes to show, just goes to show. It feels, anybody can do this?

Jordan: 14:57

Yeah, it feels so far away. Sometimes at the beginning I remember thinking, god, is this just, is this possible, is it really? But actually, when the first one, when you win the first one and then you deliver the first one and it goes smoothly and the client loves it, that's, that's just the impetus I needed, for example when I did this, to just say I'm never doing anything different, ever again. This is the only way I was saying that actually on.

Louise: 15:29

I was. I agree with you totally. I was saying that on a coaching call Today, like when you look at it as a whole and you think because I think that's where I was and the idea of working with Tain to me was like no way, I'm just not going to be able to do that.

Louise: 15:41

I don't know what you're talking about, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do it and then and then, when it was broken down into just like one step at a time, and then just win this one, just win this first, just win that first project, and then deliver it amazingly, and don't think any further ahead than that. And so I quite often share that on coaching calls like don't worry about you know what you're going to do with all your clients in the long run, you know are you?

Louise: 16:10

going to have to turn down contingent work. You know what's the direct just at the beginning. Just focus on just winning your first retained project and then the rest of it will come from there. And it's true, it's so true. As soon as you see people win their first one, you're like, oh yeah, there we go, they're on there on it now and they're on this journey and yeah, and it's so lovely.

Louise: 16:33

I mean, of course you need that help and the support and I did. In the early days I needed so much help and you know, panicked at so many stages like, oh my God, they want this, what do I do? Or they want me to send this. What does that? What does that need to look like? And or what about the delivery, like how does that need to go? But just don't panic about that, because you know.

Jordan: 16:51

I was thinking about this. I was thinking about this last night, right, and this is part of my job, probably that I love the most. So I had one of our members in the US, bill, had reached out to me and said I need a little bit of last minute help, like I still haven't been out there and pitched for the first time yet and I've just kind of fallen into this pitch with a client and it's happening tomorrow and can you just jump on a zoom with me and just make sure my pitch decks where it needs to be and that I'm prepped and that I'm ready. And what I absolutely love is when you can see people and they almost there. They're nervous and they're scared, they're not convinced. And it's so great to be the other side of the fence because I know he's going to absolutely smash it and I know what the results of this are going to be and I know the client's going to lap it up.

Jordan: 17:39

Sometimes it's amazing is the most difficult hurdle to overcome, and when they do it, they fly with it. They do, yeah, completely.

Louise: 17:50

One of our members, debbie, I think, left a lovely little craft morn. Oh yeah, it was so nice to see this while I was away. It was so nice we were sharing in our community about the power of getting recommendations from your clients and your candidates and reminding. Just such a basic thing, such a simple thing to ask and at what stages to ask. And Debbie kindly recommended me on my LinkedIn profile. She says I've been a customer of Luz for three years. So Debbie McDonald's in property in Melbourne in Australia.

Jordan: 18:30

Not proper in-accreement, just to clarify.

Louise: 18:33

Yes, sorry, placing leaders in property. She'd done a couple of pieces of retained work then. Now she now has joined forces with a very experienced search consultant. Ever since the course a couple of years ago she's been 100 percent retained and they're now only operating at the C-suite, she says been a customer of Luz for three years, initially going through the retained foundation course and now as a mastermind member. She's a very valued mastermind member, very experienced, she says. I can't recommend Lou and a brilliant team enough. The impact on my business and the service my customers receive has been huge. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the investment in her training to any agency owner. You get back what you put in from the course, like anything. It's a no-brainer for high-performing consultants who are hungry for professional development. It doesn't just help to transition to retained work but also helps enormously with general business development and delivery. So nice and we didn't even pay her to say it.

Louise: 19:32

I didn't even pay her to say it, I didn't even ask her to say it, which was the nicest thing, just unprompted, absolutely. And so what have you been helping people with this week, Jord?

Jordan: 19:45

Lots of things. I think one of the themes at the moment that keeps cropping up is actually people wanting to understand, or suppose a little bit of trepidation about taking retained projects on when they're very difficult or very niche, when there's a concern of what happens if I can't deliver on this.

Jordan: 20:06

And me and you. We ran a webinar yesterday, didn't we, Lou? And I thought you spoke beautifully about this, about what we're committing to when we engage on a retained basis with a client for research, so I thought you might be able to share that game with our listeners.

Louise: 20:26

Yeah, yeah, sure, and it comes up for me too and it's such a common worry. It's so common to come across people who are frightened, worried, reluctant or shy away from suggesting working on a retained basis because they aren't sure whether they can deliver it. And it's particularly the case where if it's a difficult or it's niche or you're not quite sure whether the skill set exists and or awkward location, and especially if it's been out in the market for a while and all those reasons which means that the pain is even greater than other situations. So, a they're more likely to actually buy a retained solution and, b they need it. They need that more than anything actually at the moment. So it is actually the. It's one of the easiest, it can be the easiest circumstance in which to win your first retained project and subsequent, and the impact of solving that kind of problem for a client is just huge and the rewards that it reaps. But if you're worried that you're not going to be able to deliver against it, then it holds people back from committing to it.

Jordan: 21:44

And it always reminds me of.

Louise: 21:46

There's a fabulous member of ours who is based in Canada who hasn't sold, hadn't sold, any retained work, but done like 2 million in contingent, and she'd always shied away from retained for this very reason. And the problem is that people are, or have, a preconception that when you take the retainer, you're committing to deliver the candidate, the perfect candidate and that you're committing to fail. So unlocking the barrier here is all about understanding what it actually is that you're committing to. Because if your commitment to fail with the perfect candidate and your commitment to reaching the placement you're not going to come across very convincing, if you're doubting yourself whether you actually can and nor should you, because how can you possibly guarantee that you're going to find the perfect candidate and you're going to fill it? And the reality is you can't.

Louise: 22:56

And what people most people don't realize is that there are five big firms in the world that have been doing this for over a century. They're the Shrek firms. Some people know that acronym Spencer Stewart, hydra, kin Struggles, russell Reynolds, egon Zender and Corn Ferry and they are very experienced. They've tried lots of different models. I mean they're continuously experimenting with new and innovative techniques and ways of doing things, but their payment schedule hasn't changed for a very long time and for search their payment schedule is a third of total compensation broken into three stroke four stages the first paid on commencement of project, the second paid 30 days later, the third paid 30 days after that and then the balance on the acceptance of offer to the successful candidate, based on what is actually offered.

Louise: 23:57

The previous stages are based on an assumed remuneration and what that means is the invoices and the fees for the search are billed and due regardless of what's being carried out, regardless of what's been found, regardless of whether there's been a candidate appointed, interviewed or or any of that.

Louise: 24:21

They bill for executing the assignment, they charge for executing the search.

Louise: 24:27

They don't charge for the placement or the hire and in fact, in their terms it says our fees are neither dependent nor contingent upon making a hire. They're due regardless of whether a hire is made internally or externally. And what that makes you realise is, as a retain search consultant, you're being commissioned to carry out the search, not to fill the position, and we're able to give our client the comfort that we will work with them until we reach a result. The result might not be that they find their perfect candidate, because that perfect candidate might not exist, but that they will be certain at the end of the project that they are making their decision from all of the talent that is available to them in the market at this time and if they decide from that, that they decide not to make a hire, they also have all of the evidence, all of the information, all of the intelligence on which to base their decision on what to do instead. And you handle this really nicely, don't you, jod? I like the way you handle this.

Jordan: 25:45

Yeah, I'll take the compliment.

Louise: 25:50

I mean, I'm only reinforcing what we've said because this will be new for quite a lot of people. Like if a client says to you and whether this is an objection internally in yourself and you're thinking, shit, I'm not sure whether I can fill this or not, or whether it's the client saying but what you've already said, this is difficult We've been looking for this person for six months we haven't found them. What happens if you don't find them? What happens if you can't fill it?

Jordan: 26:14

Yeah, yeah, I would say good question, louise. Yeah, it's a very good question. Firstly, let me reassure you that the commitment here is mutual. The financial commitment from you. That's what allows me to commit to you in return and work with you until we reach a result.

Jordan: 26:32

But we are dealing with people here, so unfortunately, I can't guarantee you that the result we ultimately end up reaching, I can't guarantee that is going to be the exact result we set out to achieve at the beginning, in the brief, because maybe that person doesn't exist.

Jordan: 26:46

Maybe they do exist, but the timing is not right. They're not looking for a new opportunity. But what I can guarantee you is that our process will be thorough, it will be rigorous, it will be transparent. We'll share with you our workings every step of the way, and that means, if we do reach a point in the search process that we need to rest here, we need to look at the parameters we'll make the decisions on the future direction of that search together, based on all of the evidence, all of the data that we've acquired during our search. At that point and that means when we reach a result which we absolutely will you're going to be 100% confident that that's the very best result available to you in the market at that time I'd probably close as well and say you know, we haven't failed on a retained basis yet. If I thought there was any chance at all that would fail on this project, I would not be recommending that this is what we do.

Jordan: 27:37

So we demonstrate on this project, but the confidence I mean he make it sound easy.

Jordan: 27:45

It wasn't always that way the confidence coming from delivering. So we've been working on this for so long on so many projects, from having conversations with customers where I say it doesn't exist, and let me show you that it doesn't exist, and actually seeing them say, okay, that helps, let's work together to see what does exist. Then and you know my attitude always when a customer tells me it's really, really niche, when they tell me they've been working it contingently for nine months and they haven't reached a result, when they tell me that they've had offers, rejected, all of these things, rather than me sitting there and thinking, hmm, I don't know if I can fill this, I sit there thinking, well, I'm their only help, because if they can't fill it through me on a retained basis, they ain't filling it any other way.

Louise: 28:41

Yeah, so I totally agree with you. I got to the stage where there was nothing that frightened me at all. Every time that I got to a situation where it was really difficult In fact, the more difficult it was, the more challenging it was. The worse the journey they had been to arrive at, wherever, whatever mess they were in at the time, the better, because I knew that the way that I was going to work with them and the process that I was going to put in place was going to, come what may, regardless of the challenges that we came across, regardless of whatever was thrown at us, regardless of however difficult or niche it was, that I was going to be able to take them to a place where they were certain, without any shadow of a doubt, that they were looking at all of the options, all of the best options that were available to them, and that they had all of the data and information on which to base the decision on how to move forward, whatever that step of moving forward might be.

Louise: 29:41

And if anybody could actually if anybody could do it, then I could and I would. I wanted to be the person to do it, because I trusted myself more than anybody else in my process and that's why I realized over the years that it's not the selling it, that's the success to the, that's the secret to this, to the success of a long term formation of a, of a retained division or retained business or or even just a retained desk. It's delivery, and successful delivery is is what gives you the confidence to sell it, it's what gives you the confidence to handle objections.

Louise: 30:21

It's what gives you and of course it opens up all the opportunity in the market. So, I'm completely with you, and that's what. That's what people get, isn't it? When I mean, that's what they? They're surrounded by that in our member community they're surrounded by the support and the help.

Jordan: 30:38

The delivery and the pitch is so intrinsically linked, then actually it's funny, because people get better and better at this the more they do.

Jordan: 30:45

And I think often they think the reason they're getting better and better at it is because they're doing more of it and they're pitching more and they're more used to it and they're familiar with it. And yeah, that's probably part of it. But I think a big part of it is that when they go through that delivery process, when they see the value adds and the difference it makes, they talk almost from the heart more, they talk with more belief and that comes across in the pitch. They truly believe it. And that's how I felt I went from wanting to win retained business at the start because I was pissed off with the contingent model. I'd have done anything else other than contingent at that point. I was just so pissed off with it. So actually within two or three months I felt it was my mission, it was my obligation to make sure customers had the level of service I knew I could give them when they retained me.

Louise: 31:36

And that comes across. We're coaching with Alice yesterday and her team and Alice, who's won millions now in retained revenue and she's got several million dollar billers in her team too, and we're just coaching a new cohort and listening to her pitch. She's just so. She's just. She said it's easy for me because I know without any doubt at all that working in this way is the best way to deliver pretty much anything, and so it's easy. She has absolutely no doubt in the process and the way she's going to deliver it. And that's what it is all about, isn't it? And in fact, when we were talking to Thendraud, it reminded me of the analogy that we were putting together an email for, when you were talking about sharing with the client and showing them where we were.

Louise: 32:27

Because there was a really really good analogy shared in one of our co-lab calls recently by one of our Mastermind members. It would have been a Mastermind member, definitely would have been. And these are the people that have been doing this now for a couple of years and they've got really good at it. They've got such like us. They just feel they're so confident in the process. But they weren't, don't get me wrong.

Louise: 32:49

These were this guy was a fully. Nick was a fully contingent recruiter before he joined the course. He'd never done retained work. He didn't. He was a great recruiter and very experienced and seasoned, but he had had didn't have any experience of retained. I think he'd done the odd one and dabbled, but he wasn't really sure what it was, didn't have a lot of confidence. Anyway, he said it's like the difference between. It's like what Uber did for taxis. He said they didn't change the delivery time. They didn't change the arrival time or the duration that you have to wait for a taxi. They just gave you visibility of it and psychologically, by being able to see the journey that the driver takes to get to you, it makes the arrival time of the taxi more acceptable and I absolutely love that.

Louise: 33:44

I mean, that's not the only thing that that process does, but that is one of the things that the process does and it's so massively helpful in partnering with the client on a retained basis. So, yeah, I love that.

Jordan: 33:58

Well, it allows you to plan right and it allows you to feel in control and you can make steps based on where that taxi is at.

Louise: 34:05

It's on the journey.

Jordan: 34:07

And that's the control that it gives to customers. Yeah, it's an amazing analogy really, is.

Louise: 34:16

So when they arrive, you don't say where have you been. You're like oh God, that must have been, that must have been painful for you. And that's exactly what happens when he's delivering retained search. The client ends up saying what can I do? What can I do to help you? What can I do? What do you need from me? It's really lovely. Okay, so that's what you've been helping people with.

Jordan: 34:35

I have been helping.

Louise: 34:36

Yeah, I haven't been helping people a lot, because I've been on a beach in.

Louise: 34:39

Devon, but I have been doing some when I have had some signal. And one of the things I was helping with was one of our members was asking about work in. I forget who it was actually asking about Patrick. It was working about working in Japan. So he's pitching to a client in Japan and they are actually looking for help in the UK. They're setting up a UK entity and they want their first boots on the ground in the UK and Patrick, in his industry, is perfectly placed to do it. But he wanted some any tips on working with Japanese companies. He asked about dress code and culture and I don't know. I couldn't answer him on that. But what I could help him with was that the standard fee in Japan is 40% and I only found out through working with, in fact, quite a lot of our members are based in Japan. We've got quite a high percentage in Japan and I know because I'm working with them, and that is the standard fee 40%. Can you believe it, hi?

Jordan: 35:35

Cue the influx of cruisers out to the Japanese market.

Louise: 35:40

Yeah, I'd love to go to Japan. Have you ever been to Japan, george?

Jordan: 35:43

No, I've not. I'd like to. Maybe we should host a podcast live or an in-person webinar in Tokyo.

Louise: 35:50

Okay, I wasn't in. That would be a nice excuse to put it all on the business.

Jordan: 35:55

Yeah, good idea. Yes, I do, full of them. And then we could go straight from Tokyo to Sydney.

Louise: 36:03

Yeah, okay, deal, and I've also got a note to talk about birthdays, cause that was quite a nice one, wasn't it? Yeah, well, I love this.

Jordan: 36:18

I mean you have. You know you have lots of tips about. I'm supposed to think outside of the box when it comes to BD, but I know you've talked about this before birthdays chocolates. I know you have a nice example of Share with the people, though what do you do?

Louise: 36:36

Oh, I'm like, I'm like a dog with a bone when I want to work with a client and so when I've decided that I can see that they're having problems and I know I can help them, then I basically won't stop until they tell me to fuck off Dog with a bone stalker.

Jordan: 36:51

It depends on which side of the fence you are.

Louise: 36:54

All right, I don't mind, I'll take that. And so I just keep thinking of ways that I can appeal to them and stand out from all the other emails and messages that they're getting. So one of the things I do always is make sure that at some point I pick the phone up. And I pick up the phone and actually get hold of them and say you might have noticed that I've been trying to get hold of you. I know this is probably not a good time, but I really want to work with you.

Louise: 37:24

I can see that you're facing some challenges with X and Y and Z, and I've recently carried out this and this and this and I'd like to share with you how I did it and, in those sort of 30 seconds, book a meeting with them, even if it's just 10, 20 minutes, so I can share with them how I've solved some of the problems that they're facing. But I'll also, if that doesn't work or I can't get hold of them or they've said, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've done the meeting and I haven't heard from them and I'm following up I'll have like a birthday or an and Christmas like scheme for them. And so one of my targets was I found out he was from Turin. He was actually working in Brussels. Have I shared this on the podcast already?

Jordan: 38:08

I think so.

Louise: 38:09

I've shared this before, I think it's just because I was probably showing it in a coaching call. Anyway, he was living in Brussels and but he was actually Italian from Turin, so I found something from his hometown. There's a specific type of chocolate that's made in Turin. They're like these little long triangular things you might have seen them and then wrapped up. Anyway, I ordered a box very expensive and I was them and I posted them to him on his birthday saying happy birthday, I thought you'd like something from your hometown. He really liked it.

Louise: 38:35

So the next time I called him he said he answered the phone and he said ah, louise, thank you for the chocolates. Must have been about six months later. He picked up the phone and said I have a project for you and I got it and I got on the bloody plane the next day, went down to Brussels and and I got the first search and the company that I was working for at the time I still working with that firm globally and I know because I know people still in the firm and I think that's a huge account and they do really well with it all because I sent him some chocolates on his birthday. So it's really where it's really well placed to do something different, and I advise this as part of the training, amongst other things, as well. And one of our guys another Nick, got quite a lot of next was asking well, how do you find out when their birthday is? Well, hey, you know what? It's really easy. It's all linked in, so you just need to find it under contact.

Louise: 39:29

I'm just going to share my screen so you can see that, because it is really easy. I'm sure I saved it under just why you bring that up just for anyone listening.

Jordan: 39:40

If anyone would like to work with me, I do accept chocolates, and Warrington aren't famous for any particular type of chocolate, but I'm not picky. Send me any, I'll eat them, it's fine oh.

Louise: 39:52

God, screen share, entire screen. Getting good at this, okay. So for those of you that can't see the screen and they're just listening to us, you just go to contact info on the profile on the LinkedIn page and under contact info it comes up profile, website, phone email and then it comes up with birthday. I'm on Jordan's profile at the moment and it says his phone number, his email address and his birthday is May 19. So you go, you've got the date that you can send Jordan's and Warrington chocolates.

Jordan: 40:25

Yeah, or any chocolate.

Louise: 40:28

I need chocolates. Is there any chocolates made in warrants, and what? Makes soap powder in warrants, and don't they? You could get some personal factory shut down?

Jordan: 40:35

No, that's gone.

Louise: 40:36

They don't even make soap powder. Yeah, it's going to make warrants and famous wire, wire. Yeah, well, that's why it's called warrants and wire. Is that the rugby team? That's called warrants and warrants.

Jordan: 40:48

What the nickname is? The wire, and that's the reason why I don't like rugby. But yeah, that's the reason they called the wire.

Louise: 40:54

Any particular type of wire.

Jordan: 40:56

No, just long thin ones Just wire, just wire.

Louise: 41:04

Okay, okay, good birthdays. And, lastly, we like to share something that's been going on on LinkedIn, like in the community or something that's called RI, and something caught my eye and it was Liz Brennan's post about single parents, or parents in general mothers, I think it was and how she hates it when mothers, particularly single mothers, take holiday.

Louise: 41:34

And the first one and I thought oh my God, that's awful. How on earth have you got away with writing a post like that? And then I scroll down and it said because they're ridden with guilt about taking time off work, they're really struggling because they feel guilty that they're not a good enough parent, they don't take enough holiday. But then they feel guilty that they're taking holiday from work and they've got so much to do and that's why she hates it when they take holiday, which I really liked, because it is really, really difficult, isn't it?

Louise: 42:02

I mean you're about to.

Jordan: 42:04

You're about to find out more about that, but actually I think that that links quite nicely to what we do and hopefully the interest of our listeners, because I think retained helps with that. It really does, because it allows you space and time and control, to be able to take time off and spend time with the most important people your family, the ones close to you and not feel guilty, not have projects for by the wayside, not have competitors fill your jobs. So yeah, that's just another, another huge benefit of working with financial commitment.

Louise: 42:47

Yeah, it is. It makes such a massive difference to the quality of life that you have. And I mean, when I was a contingent recruiter I found myself a single parent and it was one of the catalysts for me moving to retained because I just I was working so many hours, everything that I was doing so much in the evenings what I found was during the day I was dealing with clients, I was business developing, I was getting hold of people in working hours on the phone, and then in the evenings I was. I was getting home, getting the kids fed, getting them in the bath, getting them to bed, getting my laptop straight back out again and then doing all my candidates searching and doing all my candidate approaches and just never fucking stopped.

Louise: 43:30

Like because I couldn't stop because it was always fastest finger first and I couldn't carry on like that. I just wouldn't be able to be the mother that I was to them at the ages that they were, had I not moved to retain and in fact I well I would have left the industry because it's got, it was going to be one or the other. So it does help with that. It really, really helps when you've got committed clients that you're working in a team partnership with. You can proportion your time. You know that you're going to fill every job that you work on. You don't need to work on 10 at a time. You work on three, possibly four. You spend a day a week on each and you know that you're going to get compensated. You know when you need compensated. You know what you need to do, especially when you've got a bulletproof process for delivery.

Louise: 44:15

Yeah life starts to get manageable and you start to see the future very differently.

Jordan: 44:18

And the guilt goes.

Louise: 44:22

Yeah. Yeah, it does, yeah it does it, does you go on holiday and you enjoy it.

Jordan: 44:27

Yeah, you worry about when to order the next margarita and not who's filling your jobs.

Louise: 44:35

Yeah, so true.

Jordan: 44:36

Yeah, nice.

Louise: 44:38

So I've loved talking to you today. I'm sorry about my technical issues that have been driving you insane.

Jordan: 44:45

We're used to it, don't worry.

Louise: 44:48

Thank you, producer Ben, for helping.

Jordan: 44:52

I went a minute on. Mindset Was that, was that.

Louise: 44:55

Oh yeah, a minute on mindset. Oh yeah, a minute on mindset. We didn't have that on the agenda.

Jordan: 45:02

No, we didn't yeah we did.

Louise: 45:06

Yeah, we did. Sorry, it's my fault.

Jordan: 45:08

What the?

Louise: 45:08

hell, though I missed it.

Jordan: 45:11

Feel free to concoct one on the spot.

Louise: 45:13

I don't know what minute on mindset could be.

Jordan: 45:15

Yeah, we can definitely put some together on the spot, though. Well, in a way, we've talked about the mindset. Yeah, we have we talked about? Yeah, so anyone that wants the minute on mindset? We actually gave you about 10 minutes on mindset. If you scroll back about 20 minutes and listen to 10 minutes following that, we told you how your mindset is so important when it comes to what's expected of you and believing in your delivery process, and that you can do it.

Louise: 45:43

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Jordan: 45:47

So mindset producer Ben, how's that for bang for your book. We're giving you about 10 minutes on mindset.

Louise: 45:53

Is that okay?

Jordan: 45:54

Okay, doesn't follow the format, but we'll. We'll allow it this week.

Louise: 45:57

It was a 30th. Okay, thank you. Thanks, ben.

Jordan: 46:00

Thanks for allowing us to be flexible.

Louise: 46:02

Thank you for allowing us that.

Jordan: 46:04

No problem.

Louise: 46:05

Very grateful, all right, well, until next time, then All right.

Jordan: 46:10

Well, I think we'll carry on. Lovely to see you, as always.

Louise: 46:12

Doing these podcast meetings, don't we? Yes, you too. Lots of love to our lovely listeners.

Jordan: 46:18

Yeah.

Louise: 46:18

Two of you, all two of you.

Jordan: 46:20

I think we might be up to three by now. We're doing well.

Louise: 46:23

Are we?

Jordan: 46:25

Yeah.

Louise: 46:25

Bye producer Ben.

Jordan: 46:27

Bye, Danny.

Louise: 46:27

Thanks guys, I love you all, lots of love. Bye.